H&B 2002tii ALPINA (Jason Pappalexis, part 2)

[inkatouring]

My personal opinion - and it is strictly an opinion - that too much emphasis is placed to have the "correct" Alpina pump. For originality purposes, it is a must, but for performance, it is my experience that you can crank that fuel enrichment screw to give you enough juice to run 125 mph - after that, it is a moot point, since in reality no one in the right mind would go that fast in a 2002 (I tempted fate once, and that was enough) .

I agree. Two out of the three A4s I've had did not have the ALPINA pump and used 292 cams (this one with the ALPINA pump has a 304 cam and S14 crank). All three were very fast cars and -- although they may not have met their "full potential" -- were more than "good enough." Given the price of an ALPINA pump, I would opt for the stock one tweaked, i.e., cranking down on the overall enrichment screw. But, the ALPINA pump came with the A4 kit I bought last time and who was I to say no?

BTW, I know tiis with 300+ degree cams that work fine with tweaked stock pumps -- and pump out over bhp close to A4 systems.....

[Guest Anonymous]

I concur, if you can make a stock pump work or have it re-worked who cares. Some time I would like to see one of those tii's running a 300 cam. Mine worked for sh_t, but then I wasn't using a modified pump. I have "heard" of folks running 300 deg sport cams in tii's just never actually seen one. Now I do recall a fellow (when I lived in socal) that had a tii with a Schrick 292 - it was fast, nearly as fast (or who knows maybe faster) than my car with the A4 injection.

http://historicracingbmw.blogspot.com/

[graham73tii]

Yep, Michael is right about the A4 system performing regardless of whether it's running an Alpina pump or modified oem one. I own one of Josh's previous A4 cars that is running a modified oem pump with the schrick 292 cam and I have to tell you it runs great. The overall response of the engine was improved more back in May when I installed a new heavy duty throttle cable. The old original Alpina cable (30 yrs old) had stretched until it finally reached the breaking point. After getting the new one correctly adjusted, throttle response has never been better.

Garry

[jerry]

Folks, can anyone post an opinion/educated guess as to whether a 72-73 KF pump is 'more better' than the later 74 KF pump? it is my understanding that the earlier pump pushes more fuel out, or rather, has a different fuel cam.

it has already been opined on this board that my Turbo KF pump is not a good candidate for the A4, sooooo, i'm left with the following choices: a 72-73 KF pump (likely needing rehab, for general purposes), a 74 version (also needing rehab), or a 72-73 KF pump i recently purchased off eBay that was rebuilt by Wes Ingram and has his characteristic 'bent brass rod' and IE logo stamped on the housing.

this pump was rebuilt and never used, or so i was told (no reason to doubt that). there was a thread about this modification several months ago, but the results were inconclusive to me. it seems more of a mechanical tweak to the existing pump.

[inkatouring]

The overall response of the engine was improved more back in May when I installed a new heavy duty throttle cable. The old original Alpina cable (30 yrs old) had stretched until it finally reached the breaking point. After getting the new one correctly adjusted, throttle response has never been better.

Garry

Garry, can you let me know the specs and supplier of the cable. I'd like to have a spare. Thx.

[graham73tii]

Hello Josh,

I shopped around and talked to Bill Williams before having Peguasus Racing fab one up for me. It does require some "fabrication" to switch things over from metric size to american. The new cable is much stouter than the original and this along with the size conversion required some fabrication to match things up. I spoke with Bob in tech support at 262-317-1200. I gave him the measurements and also ended up sending them my broken cable to pattern it after (which they returned).

Here are the specs on the cable that was custom made for my car:

Jacket length 16.25"

Cable length 26"

shorten both stud ends (these are 10/32" thread)

purchased (2) #1274 quick release ball joint ends (screws onto stud ends of cable).

The firewall Alpina cable holder cannot be used with this new cable since the diameter of the jacket as well as the jacket end piece which is threaded are too large to slide into the holder. I modified a galvanized fairly stout "L" bracket to fasten the cable to the firewall utilizing the same mounting location as the Alpina holder, which positions the cable at the correct angle straight down to the throttle pedal arm.

To hold the cable to the linkage bracket, I didn't want to destroy the original mounting method, so an extender plate was made that puts the cable just below the original location to guide it toward the actual linkage hook-up. The metric ball welded to the linkage had to be drilled out so that the new size ball could be bolted up. Once you have everything loosely bolted up, all clearances need to be checked to ensure smooth cable movement to WOT.

I can probably take some pictures if you would like later in the week. Let me know if you have questions.

Garry

[dubois]

Folks, can anyone post an opinion/educated guess as to whether a 72-73 KF pump is 'more better' than the later 74 KF pump? it is my understanding that the earlier pump pushes more fuel out, or rather, has a different fuel cam.

it has already been opined on this board that my Turbo KF pump is not a good candidate for the A4, sooooo, i'm left with the following choices: a 72-73 KF pump (likely needing rehab, for general purposes), a 74 version (also needing rehab), or a 72-73 KF pump i recently purchased off eBay that was rebuilt by Wes Ingram and has his characteristic 'bent brass rod' and IE logo stamped on the housing.

this pump was rebuilt and never used, or so i was told (no reason to doubt that). there was a thread about this modification several months ago, but the results were inconclusive to me. it seems more of a mechanical tweak to the existing pump.

Anything at this point is a guess. I would personally "start" with the Ingram pump. I've had a 74 pump and then a 72 pump on my A4. It "seems" that the 72 works better. The wide band A/F gage will show you the road. Swapping pumps is not a difficult job with the A4 system...

[Mich]

I have to rebuild my 73 k-fish pump, but i want to ask you what exactly is the difference between the A4 pump and the stock. As far as i know the difference is in the cam in the pump and the pistons (7.5 mm instead of the 6.5 mm stock ones). Am i right? And if i send it for rebuild (Wes Ingram probably) can it be converted to A4 pump?

He offers tii street pump and High-perfromance. I guess the HP pump is simillar with the A4 pump???

[jerry]

The overall response of the engine was improved more back in May when I installed a new heavy duty throttle cable. The old original Alpina cable (30 yrs old) had stretched until it finally reached the breaking point. After getting the new one correctly adjusted, throttle response has never been better.

Garry

Garry, can you let me know the specs and supplier of the cable. I'd like to have a spare. Thx.

josh, i'm definitely interested in this cable setup too. i'd guess making two or more sets is not that much more effort once they get started...

michael, thanks for the reply. i suppose i have a couple pumps to play with... when the time comes. my A4 has been with Harry Bieker in Oregon for the past year.... obviously, i'm in no particular hurry.

[JsnPpp]

Hi Mich,

I haven't worked with Wes but from all I read and see, he can build whatever you need for your system. Seems like one of the last gurus around.

Since an A4 is a "known commodity" he may well have a rough idea already about what to do and would only need your engine specifics (cam, compression, etc.) to move forward. Again, I don't know but it's possible and would reduce the need for shipping. I'm sure he could fill you in...

Michael may be one of the only folks around who have tried both pumps. I know he has spent time tuning them and trust that the 72 pump is indeed better so if you have an option give it a whirl. I think we are talking about a very small difference in performance from that of a "tuned" Kfisher, probably only noticeable only in race conditions? I don't know for sure but thats my guess.

My 2 cents, worth less than that! Hope this helps...

~Jason

[NickVyse]

Mich - there's also a place in the middle of England very familiar with modifying kugel pumps - they're used on a few race engines other than m10's

[Mich]

Hi Mich,

I haven't worked with Wes but from all I read and see, he can build whatever you need for your system. Seems like one of the last gurus around.

Since an A4 is a "known commodity" he may well have a rough idea already about what to do and would only need your engine specifics (cam, compression, etc.) to move forward. Again, I don't know but it's possible and would reduce the need for shipping. I'm sure he could fill you in...

Thank you for your reply. I'll go with JE pistons with Alpina dome and head with matched Alpina head. About camshaft i can go with 300 degr if Wes can convert my pump with something similar to the A4 pump and with Alpina headers. So i think it can be one good A4 replica engine.

Mich - there's also a place in the middle of England very familiar with modifying kugel pumps - they're used on a few race engines other than m10's

Do you know some prices for rebuilding and some contact? I'm talking about rebuilding the whole inj system.

Regards.