engine and drivetrain Looking for '02 era (but non-02) car purchase suggestions...

[BarryA]

Looking to tap the collective experience of the board for suggestions for a semi-utility & travel vehicle (probably a smaller station wagon – don’t want another pickup or van) that meets the criteria below. Been looking mostly at pre 76 Volvo wagons (122/145) but my wife’s not a big Volvo fan, and I’m wondering if anyone’s got suggestions for something I’ve overlooked…..

The criteria:

1. Pre 1976 (preferably pre ’73) – no plans to move out of CA & don’t want to deal with smog issues

2. Reasonable driving dynamics – been spoiled by years of driving BMWs

3. Durable, reliable, easy to work on chassis & drivetrain - been spoiled by '02's

4. Reasonable mechanical & cosmetic parts availability (including body “soft” parts like window & door seals)

5. Decent fuel economy, reasonable performance, and at least some potential for performance upgrades (without radical engine swaps, etc).

6. Reasonable buy-in cost ($3-5K) and/or investment to bring up to solid, reliable, decent appearing driver status ($2-4K)

7. Reasonable crash safety

8. Four – five passenger capacity for reasonable distances (50 - 60 miles or so)

9. Gotta have (or be able to add) effective a/c (OE or aftermarket)

Obviously, one or more of the above criteria rule out mid-sized and large US station wagons, small SUVs, VW busses, and most (if not all) Asian and British wagons – an E30 touring would be perfect except for items 1 (& maybe 4); compact US wagons (Falcon, Nova, etc) might work except for 2 & 7 (plus 4 & 6 in many cases).

Interested in any thoughts anybody has to share…….

[calicolorado]

Saab 99

These are harder to find, but hugely awesome. Utilitarian, durable, roomy, etc.

I think you should look at the Volvo option still...the 142 is a beefed up 2002 in terms of overall layout and proportions, but it's not a wagon. I have seen 142's that are drool-worthy. Both of these I want in my stable someday.

[Justin76]

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/1851883661.html

Minus the red tint (wtf?) Looks like it could be fun...

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes-ish

4. Maybe

5. Yes

6. Yes

7. No (but probably similar to an '02)

8. Maybe

9. ?

[lynxrat]

Datsun 510, very successful, Japanese 2002 knockoff.

[TobyB]

Too bad about the 122-

it's stouter than hell, you can up- motor it

with just some bolts, has great brakes and the

suspension isn't miserable.

Lots of passenger room, less utility,

but they can tow small trailers.

Peugeot wagons are way wacky- but that could be a full time job.

Oh- YESS- Citroen DeeEss or Cee Ess!

Totally funky, way bizarre, and they drive ok, too.

t

[bmwmalcolm]

How about a Bavaria or 3.0S? Are there still any little old man or woman driven, well cared for, low mileage senior 6's still available in CA? Not quite an '02 from a driving dynamics point of view but then neither are the Swedes mentioned above. Meets all criteria except maybe 4b (available soft parts) holds 5 plus huge trunk for stuff. Not bad as an auto, easy swap to 5 speed from auto ( no nasty computers to deal with)

If it weren't for 1. could also consider an older 6 cylinder 7 series.

[Anschauer]

Ahem.

Next to my umpty ump 2002's my three Peuegot wagons have all given dependable service.

1968 404 Wagon: Plain white and built the same as their pickup from the firewall back, solid rear with a cardan rod and driveshaft in a torque tube. Had a sweet '4 on the tree' you could shift with the flick of 2 fingers. Tough little sucker Palm Beach Edition (zero heat in NYC!) Very comfortable seats. Like the 2002 was so plain it just grew on me.

Nice electric fan clutch came in handy when it was buried into the radiator when the car became a French cruller crushed between a fat Buick deuce and a quarter in front and a goombah driving a '73 plastic nose Grand Am at exit 6 on the Belt Parkway. I drove the poor thing home over the Verrazzano after filling up a spare coolant bottle at Coney Island Hospital

1982 505 Diesel in Gold Metallic. Yes I know I shouldn't have but homely as the sedan was (weird truncated ass end) the wagon was like a huge beast, same construction as the 405. Stickh shift came off in wife's hand one day driving to work on LI.

It was my 1st diesel and a hell of a lot cleaner running than the godawful 145 diesels (ever get behind one?) Sold to some Nigerians or something and spent the next couple of years in Toyota Corolla SR-5 boredome (plus a couple of Land Rovers because I had to)

1987 Peugeot Turbo. Ahhh, sweet memories! Driven straight out of the showroom in Port Chester and out onto 287. Drove ten miles, came back and spent the next 278,000 miles in Paul Braq's lgorgeous cockpit, listening to the Alpine and mashing the fun pedal every chance I got blowing away anything that got near me with a roundel on it. Zut Alors! Something like 145hp, but oh baby did it look good doing it!

The French, being French retreated before the Bavarian onslaught and left us high and dry for parts so it was sold, still running smoothly when the only parts I couldn't get (wastegate & LS) became iffy. With no rust whatsoever, paint intact, and the engine never having been opened thanks to Mobil 1.

By comparison the '94 530 touring that replaced it needed a new engine and tranny at 99,xxx miles just before the Certified warranty gave out, big-ass V8 and whatnot.

Drove it another 20k miles and wholesaled it to the Honda dealer for an Accord and I ain't never buying another new one neither.

If you've read this far - here's my suggestion:

198x MB 300 TD - find one with the self-leveling rear, crude but effective and classy as hell. Had one of those along the way as well and loved that huge mechanical sliding sunroof, easy to stand up in when reviewing the brigade and fun to slam shut when you released the lock and slammed on the brakes.

[Kidasters]

What a cool little quirky car.

510 would be very cool.

I vote for the Datsun.

[Armond]

Saab 99

These are harder to find, but hugely awesome. Utilitarian, durable, roomy, etc.

I think you should look at the Volvo option still...the 142 is a beefed up 2002 in terms of overall layout and proportions, but it's not a wagon. I have seen 142's that are drool-worthy. Both of these I want in my stable someday.

+1..and those panasports compliments the cars.

[Jim_75Sahara]

The SAAB 99 in the picture is exactly like the one my dad drove in the late 70's. Fun to drive, but it had too many things fail/break when it was new IMO. It could hold a lot of cargo.

[BarryA]

there, too.

Had thought about a 510 wagon - only real potential issues there are interior space (tight) & "soft" parts - I'm getting ready to sell a Datsun 620 King Cab pick up that's bulletproof mechanically, but cosmetic, trim and rubber parts are hard to find. The same appears to be the case with 510s, at least from the Datsun board posts I've read (the "collector" market for Japanese stuff just hasn't developed to a point where there are consistantly reliable sources of repro parts, and NOS stocks have been gone for years.

Hadn't really thought about Peugeot wagons - interesting idea. I know 403's were pretty much indestructable - wonder if hard and soft parts are available. Certainly worth checking into.

Troons are interesting (to say the least) but can be somewhat quirky and NOT a car you want to have to find parts for in the middle of nowhere on a Saturday afternoon. Friend drove a DS 21 Pallas for several years - great car, but a bit of a a challange to keep the hydraulics in proper order. I've seen that photo of the DS 19 on billet wheels before - got me thinking that hot-rodding one with a Porsche Tiptronic transaxle and a supercharged 3.8 GM V6 could be pretty interesting.....

Saab's also an interesting idea, but to meet the "utility" critera and beat the pre-smog cutoff, it would have to be an early 99 hatchback or a 93 wagon - can't remember the last time I saw an early 99 hatchback, and 93's are TINY inside.

Keep the ideas coming - appreciate everybody's input

[Napes]

Hey, Toby, thx for Citroen pics - I'd forgotten just how unattractive (gotta' watch our language on this PC sensitive board) those things were. I guess their mothers loved 'em though.

Bob Napier

[auggiemize]

Has your wife ever HAD a Volvo? They are a different mind set. I've had a 67 122s wagon, three 240's and currently have a 95 850t wagon and a 00 V70R wagon. If you want utility, and economy, and safety, and some moderate fun...122 wagons are one of the truly great designs, if for no other reason, the smartest tailgate ever...a 92 240 is safe, reliable like a Blonde (or whatever) Labrador Retreiver, and nobody knows what year it is...("they're boxy, but they're safe" ..Dudley Moore in Crazy People) With the 4-speed, not bad...Want a safe, modern bargain that'll haul ass..850t wagon. Thrashes my wifes' 03 325...

Except for the 122, they are not really cool, or happ'nin, but you said utility. If I could buy a NEW version of any of the above today, I would do it.

And...I bought a Merc 300td after my (now) ex-wife totalled my 92 240. Not cheap to maintain, but another post 76 classic that fills most of your criteria...510 wagons are great cars, but not safe...Dave V. in NC

[Schweineback]

Volvo Amazone wagon.

[gwb72tii]

What a cool little quirky car.

510 would be very cool.

I vote for the Datsun.

+1

datsun 510's can have all the same mods as a 2002 and back in their day they kicked ass on the reacetrack