engine and drivetrain Ebay Tii's ($22k and $29k)

[markmac]

Noticed both of these today on fleabay, more than anything what caught my attention was the dollar amount these cars are going for. Clearly the Sahara car is top notch based on the photo's etc., The Amazon green car looks pretty good as well (other than some engine compartment detail work). I have to say that I really like the look of that car in green. '72 a great year for the tii, the one thing that they both have in common, essentially bone stock/unmodified (other than the 320 turbines on the green car). Great to see these cars fetching this sort of money.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-2002-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ320570778993QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-2002-2002Tii-BMW-2002Tii-ABSOLUTELY-PRISTINE-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ160465047022QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

http://historicracingbmw.blogspot.com/

[moshulupkwy]

I was just thinking the same thing! Some listings just have the right combo of great car and excellent written discriptions. But in my case I am still looking to buy, so..........a bit concerned!!

Rumour has it that the Sahara owner (ebay name IMPLANTS) is a Cosmetic doctor out on Long Island! I guess it gives a new meaning to the phrase."Body Work"!!

-mpkwy

[osbourne]

Noticed both of these today on fleabay, more than anything what caught my attention was the dollar amount these cars are going for. Great to see these cars fetching this sort of money.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-2002-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ320570778993QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-2002-2002Tii-BMW-2002Tii-ABSOLUTELY-PRISTINE-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ160465047022QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

http://historicracingbmw.blogspot.com/

As a long-time Porsche 356 owner (46 years), I have to tell you that it may not be as "great" as you think it is. Ultimately, it will drive the prices of ALL 02s out of reach of many of today's enthusiasts and make "garage queens" out of the majority of the surviving 02s.

Sure, it's nice to see that at least one 02 variant is finally getting the respect it deserves, from the "market". But, the down-side is:

1.) Before long, we won't be able to buy 02 project cars or parts cars for affordable prices.

2.) 02s will become more inviting to professional car thieves.

3.) Spare parts (new) will become much less affordable and used parts prices will also trend upward.

4.) 02s will start to be purchased for "snob appeal" by guys who have no clue as to how they were meant to be driven and appreciated (meaning fewer 02s left for true enthusiasts).

About the only long term good effects are that, given the sheer volume of 02s produced and surviving, we should be able to look forward to a continuing supply of new parts, as well as quality reproduction parts to replace what BMW isn't interested in supplying anymore.

Also, more 02 will be preserved rather than junked/heavily modified & destroyed.

Anyway, enjoy "the good old days" while you still can. Just 11 short years ago, I bought my latest 356 for under $15K. It's already worth twice what I paid for it and it won't be much longer before it'll be worth 3 times what I paid for it. Parts are absurdly expensive, compared to just a few short years ago. If I didn't do all of my own mechanical, sheet metal & paint work, I could not afford to own and maintain this 356. Period.

[jdt10768]

wow

[milfweed]

there's elasticity in these prices, but they're going up,- good or bad.

...Just 11 short years ago, I bought my latest 356 for under $15K. It's already worth twice what I paid for it and it won't be much longer before it'll be worth 3 times what I paid for it.

hey, Bud:

are there still good entry points on 912s? I've never owned a porsche, but would love to look into it before they're over-the-top.

[jerry]

[

But, the down-side is:

1.) Before long, we won't be able to buy 02 project cars or parts cars for affordable prices.

2.) 02s will become more inviting to professional car thieves.

3.) Spare parts (new) will become much less affordable and used parts prices will also trend upward.

4.) 02s will start to be purchased for "snob appeal" by guys who have no clue as to how they were meant to be driven and appreciated (meaning fewer 02s left for true enthusiasts).

About the only long term good effects are that, given the sheer volume of 02s produced and surviving, we should be able to look forward to a continuing supply of new parts, as well as quality reproduction parts to replace what BMW isn't interested in supplying anymore.

Also, more 02 will be preserved rather than junked/heavily modified & destroyed.

Anyway, enjoy "the good old days" while you still can.

If I didn't do all of my own mechanical, sheet metal & paint work, I could not afford to own and maintain this 356. Period.

agreed....

well stated.

i once owned a 1962 Type B 356 for a BRIEF amount of time. i had always lusted after them. at that time you could still find a Speedster for under $10K. the allure died for me once the prices escalated to the point of worry. no thanks.

i hope the high priced 02's are reserved solely for the cleanest restorations and leave all the daily drivers to the affordable column for folks like me.

we're already seeing the used parts climb in cost compared with just a couple years ago.

if you want an investment, consult a financial adviser.

btw, on my way to work, there is a building that houses some of the nicest boy-racers from the 50's and 60's. it is an unmarked building and only occasionally leaves the garage door open. this morning as i passed, they were loading a 50's-60's vintage Ferrari onto the enclosed transporter presumably headed to Monterey, i bet. had a big meatball emblem with the number '61' on the door. i was told this 'shop' is owned by a major car dealer in Marin.

[JohnC]

As a long-time Porsche 356 owner (46 years), I have to tell you that it may not be as "great" as you think it is. Ultimately, it will drive the prices of ALL 02s out of reach of many of today's enthusiasts and make "garage queens" out of the majority of the surviving 02s.

Sure, it's nice to see that at least one 02 variant is finally getting the respect it deserves, from the "market". But, the down-side is:

1.) Before long, we won't be able to buy 02 project cars or parts cars for affordable prices.

2.) 02s will become more inviting to professional car thieves.

3.) Spare parts (new) will become much less affordable and used parts prices will also trend upward.

4.) 02s will start to be purchased for "snob appeal" by guys who have no clue as to how they were meant to be driven and appreciated (meaning fewer 02s left for true enthusiasts).

About the only long term good effects are that, given the sheer volume of 02s produced and surviving, we should be able to look forward to a continuing supply of new parts, as well as quality reproduction parts to replace what BMW isn't interested in supplying anymore.

Also, more 02 will be preserved rather than junked/heavily modified & destroyed.

Anyway, enjoy "the good old days" while you still can. Just 11 short years ago, I bought my latest 356 for under $15K. It's already worth twice what I paid for it and it won't be much longer before it'll be worth 3 times what I paid for it. Parts are absurdly expensive, compared to just a few short years ago. If I didn't do all of my own mechanical, sheet metal & paint work, I could not afford to own and maintain this 356. Period.

I agree, but the worst thing is that the cars become too valuable to enjoy as a daily driver. That's pretty much why I sold my tii. I figured it was worth more to someone else than it was to me, and I was right. I didn't want to keep racking up miles on a low-mileage car, and I didn't want to house a "garage queen" either. Even though mine did appreciate in value over the three years that I owned it, perhaps I should have held on to it for a few more years to experience the 356-like appreciation in prices! It seems like that might be happening...

[osbourne]

there's elasticity in these prices, but they're going up,- good or bad.

hey, Bud:

are there still good entry points on 912s? I've never owned a porsche, but would love to look into it before they're over-the-top.

Yes, you can still find affordable 912s, but they're starting to go up in value faster than the rate of inflation....in other words, better jump in now, before it's too late.

Parts availability is excellent, and they make wonderful touring cars. Excellent handling (but not as nimble as the 356), great brakes and plenty of room for two & luggage. Power is adequate, but not as good as an 02. Also, engines are not strong enough to guarantee reliability, if modified for much extra horsepower. They tend to break crankshafts (!!!), if thrashed too hard & too long, unlike the 02 which really seems to thrive on hard driving.

[skipsfcr]

I've always thought higher values were automatically better for all us enthusiasts. Bud's statement makes me see the flaw in that logic. I really do enjoy the relative affordability of 2002's.

[markmac]

I should have used "interesting" instead of "great" (which is really what I meant, and that these cars are seem to be getting a little more respect, as suggested by "Bud"). These two cars I think are definitely the exception to the rule (in terms of first year tii, original, super clean etc.,). It doesn't really matter what marque the car is ( in no particular order), numbers matching, quality original interior (or refinished with OEM type materials), quality body/paint, overall excellent mechanicals.....bonus points for verifiable low mileage, whether its Porsche, VW or other, cars like this are going to be in demand (always and fetch higher prices). Of course one of the great things about the 02 is the ability to personalize it to your tastes - from M2 conversion or Megasquirt, to rat rod and everything in between. As an owner of three previous to the one I have now (two tii's and one 02 its pretty difficult to not modify them in some way), my worthless 02cents.

Been a while since I have seen any non turbo 02 tip the $30k scale.

http://historicracingbmw.blogspot.com/

[milfweed]

Yes, you can still find affordable 912s, but they're starting to go up in value faster than the rate of inflation....in other words, better jump in now, before it's too late.

thanks, Bud. that's what I was lookin' for, though I'm not ready to pounce. I don't wanna go off topic, but would love to know what years you'd suggest I look at. please hit the button & zip me an email when time allows.

[markmac]

Not to take OT as suggested, but I will say I was a big time Porsche fan before a BMW fan. My dad bought a 1971 Audi 100ls (possibly the worst care ever made) from McPeak Porsche Audi in Walnut Creek, CA, on the numerous times we would be there (for repairs) used to hop in the 911's and try and convince him we (my sister and I) could "fit" in the back - never worked unfortunately. Just before the ALPINA grp. 2 car fell into my lap (so-to-speak) I was just about to pull the trigger on a 1973 911s coupe (late 2001) for about $22k, that car today would be $60 easy two to three years ago probably $80, completely out of my reach now (unless I sold the ALPINA). This place has some sick 912's and 911's, kind of surprised that no one is really doing the same with 02's, not the same profit margin I suppose with the BM considering the cost of parts etc.,

http://www.caporsche.net/carsforsale912.html

[HBChris]

A little bit of apples and oranges as Porsche built around 80,000 356s vs. 400,000 2002s. And most vehicles with 4 seats aren't going to compete with those that have 2. Just my opinion though.

[osbourne]

Not to take OT as suggested, but I will say I was a big time Porsche fan before a BMW fan. My dad bought a 1971 Audi 100ls (possibly the worst care ever made) from McPeak Porsche Audi in Walnut Creek, CA, on the numerous times we would be there (for repairs) used to hop in the 911's and try and convince him we (my sister and I) could "fit" in the back - never worked unfortunately. Just before the ALPINA grp. 2 car fell into my lap (so-to-speak) I was just about to pull the trigger on a 1973 911s coupe (late 2001) for about $22k, that car today would be $60 easy two to three years ago probably $80, completely out of my reach now (unless I sold the ALPINA). This place has some sick 912's and 911's, kind of surprised that no one is really doing the same with 02's, not the same profit margin I suppose with the BM considering the cost of parts etc.,

http://www.caporsche.net/carsforsale912.html

One thing that may prevent the 02 from doing what the 356, and early 911s have done in the market is the fact that there were just so darn many of them produced. There were only around 70,000 356s built during their entire production run (1950 thru 1965). The relative rarity of the tii models will assure their continued high value, compared to the "plain" 2002.

Let's hope that the 02 gains enough value to ensure their survival (vs. sending them to the crusher), but not enough value to put them out of reach to those who would derive the most enjoyment from owning, restoring and driving them.

[milfweed]

Not to take OT as suggested... This place has some sick 912's and 911's, kind of surprised that no one is really doing the same with 02's, not the same profit margin I suppose with the BM considering the cost of parts etc.,

http://www.caporsche.net/carsforsale912.html

thanks for sharing that link-of-tease. jeez!

start a new thread will ya, mark? it'd be great to gather more input from those who know the value of porsche guilty pleasures.