engine and drivetrain Engine Sweet Spot?

[Emyers]

Richard, as for so many 5-speeds being installed, I could simply refute that by saying "Why didn't the almighty BMW offer a 5-speed (Overdrive) in 2002s?" They seemed to think their cars could handle the 4-speed just fine.

When the 2002/1600 was imported by Max Hoffman prior to the organization of BMW NA mid 70's, the car was developed in a country that did not have the stretches of interstate we have here in the states, the layout served its purpose nicely as a small family sedan in its home country and the other markets in which it was initially sold. Not many cars built in Europe at that time, that were not seen as sport cars/coupes had five speeds. The car was not designed with the USA in mind where the follow on 320i, did eventually get the five speed overdrive. You can definitely drive at 4000 RPM..just can not drive at 4000 RPM indefinitely.

Earl

aka Snakedriver

74 02Lux

02 M Roadster

72 Volvo 1800ES

[KFunk]

As I said after your initial post. Two opinions. As to the mileage. If you ran the whole trip at 4K and with a five speed you ran the same distance at 3.2K you would defineley increase milage.It would be the same speed. Something else to remember is the four speeds are at least 8 years newer(fewer miles). Alot of the four speeds are the source of alot of the vibration and noise. Its up to you. And in defense of Kfunk with an EP car you cant race a 2002 in vintage or SCCA events with a five speed. He and all the other racers are helping us all to realize what these cars could do. Kfunk when your racing whats max RPM??? 7K???

Richard, are you talking about E-Production or E-Prepared? I do E-Prepared (Solo II/Autocross), which is far less hardcore than E-Prod (road course wheel-to-wheel racing). Plus my car is bizarrely under-prepared even for E-Prepared, and I just run it in that class for some extra local competition (not too many people run FSP here, except for one frequent national champion). Come to think of it, I've never checked the autocross legality of a 5-speed. It wouldn't help at all at autocross, and probably even hurt if it gave me some extra weight.

But to answer your question, if there's a big straight I've left it at the top of 2nd gear for quite sometime (all stock head). It'd have to be a huge straight to ever be worthwhile to grab for 3rd. I can't remember the RPMs. I think it's just past the redline, and I'd have to check my tach after work to refresh my memory. I've also run it past the redline for a while in 4th gear at Mid-Ohio on the back straight. While I do abuse it, I frequently change the oil with fresh Valvoline VR1 whenever it looks dirty, and use good Mahle/Mann filters, and keep the cooling system in top shape.

Honestly though, I haven't raced much at all with it in the past year or two. Just lost interest, money, and time. The car sees far more street use, including road trips to explore interesting towns....guess I'm gettin old.

[KFunk]

When the 2002/1600 was imported by Max Hoffman prior to the organization of BMW NA mid 70's, the car was developed in a country that did not have the stretches of interstate we have here in the states, the layout served its purpose nicely as a small family sedan in its home country and the other markets in which it was initially sold. Not many cars built in Europe at that time, that were not seen as sport cars/coupes had five speeds. The car was not designed with the USA in mind where the follow on 320i, did eventually get the five speed overdrive. You can definitely drive at 4000 RPM..just can not drive at 4000 RPM indefinitely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn

[PSloan]

IMO a 5 speed is too much for a 2002. Bigger is not always better. Why not use a 6 speed and 2.9 gears? Because the motor won't be efficient at that point in the rev range. I believe that these cars are designed to cruise at the point that they're the most efficient. If you gear it too high or too low you'll lose performance/gas mileage. Sure, wear and tear and blah blah blah. I like to give mine the ol' italian tune up.

[Emyers]

I like the five speed because it gives me more options than a four speed......

Earl

74 02Lux w/5 speed OD

02 M Roadster

72 Volvo 1800ES 4 Speed w/Laycock OD

[Richard]

Italian tune up= No rear view mirror

[Pierre]

A 5-speed is identical to a 4-speed in gearing except for that extra overdrive gear.

2002s came with a 3.64 final drive and a 4-speed. Cruising at 3700- 4000 RPM is fine. Acceleration is adequate. But if you swap your rear end with a 3.9, your acceleration improves but now you are cruising a 4500-5000 RPM.

I drove my 69 for 16 years. It had 4-speed and a 3.90. It would cruise all day at 5500 RPM, spend the day at the track at 6500 RPM all day and did not miss a beat. That motor would just not quit no matter how hard I drove it. (it came in the car and I never even removed the head off it.)The motor can handle it. I eventually swapped it with an M20 and the M10 is still running in another 2002.

But it was loud and buzzy. (No carpet, not door panels, no rear seats, urethane everything etc.) It's a comfort issue. Lower revs means lower noise, lower vibration, more relaxed driving. You can always drop it to 4th if you need the revs, the power, the acceleration or anything else that tickles your fancy. That car was not a cruiser. It did not need a 5-speed.

I am converting my 74 tii to a 5-speed. It already has the 3.90 which makes it buzzy. I would like to take an 8-hour drive up the coast in a more relaxed fashion. That car is more insulated, more of a cruising vehicle than a track rat on canyon carver. At the very end, it's a personal thing.

[FunElan]

I have a 5 speed and a 3.91 lsd. It does give more options-if I want, I can use that sweet spot in 4th at 4k rpm. Or I can cruise at 3.2k rpm in 5th. Or if I'm in a rush, I can use that sweet spot at 4k rpm in 5th gear and cruise even faster!

[c.d.iesel]

...."pushed on up toward 4000rpm

(about 73mph). All of a sudden the

engine vibrations went to a minimum

and the engine had sort of sweet

purr in the back ground. It was

almost as if it was designed

to run at 4000rpm...." =

YUP you found the G-Spot!

amazing - if anyone does actually drive a well

maintained 02 - after the first hour of a long trip -

all the joints, bearings, metal warms-up and begins

to feel like home. Sit back and rack up the miles

in mechanical harmony. Glad You Found IT!

[jgerock]

My first long driving trip in the tii was to V@V 2008 (I believe we had 13 in our caravan). I still had the 4 speed, 3.64 rear diff and ANSA sport exhaust. The car ran great, but my gas tank leaked fumes and my left ear was half-numb from the window being down and the ANSA noise.

I LOVED EVERY MILE! The tii seemed to love hanging at 4K RPMs and would pass cars without any hesitation.

In 2010, the 5 speed was installed along with another rear diff (still 3.64) and rebuilt distributor (stock tii muffler in 2009). The trips to Arkansas and NC rewarded me with lower revs so I could relax a little, listen to some music and get better gas mileage. I did find myself downshifting into 4th on some hills.

To me, the character of the car has changed slightly because of the 5 speed (maybe due to the added weight?). I might install a 3.90 LSD in the future for another comparison.

[logume1881]

I drive my 02 with it's tired, mongrel junkyard engine on the freeway at 80 all the time and it loves it. I noticed on the speedo there are red marks at 55 and 80ish, which I'm guessing refers to some outdated German speed limit or something. Whatever the case, the engine note turns from a course growl into a smooth whisper at around this speed. It does seem like it was designed to cruise at this speed..

The red marks are the shift points on the stock 4 speed and 3.64 rear end. Many of these cars had a clock instead of a tach, so they used those red marks to show the highest point for each gear.

On the topic at hand, I had a 4 speed in my 72. It was a fantastic car to drive, but 4K on the freeway wasn't that bad. I just had the radio blasting. The pickup it had at freeway speeds in high gear was pretty nice though, you never had to change to 3rd.

The 75 I have now has a 5 speed in it and it is much more relaxed to drive on a long trip, and it does improve MPG a couple numbers. But for passing, it is required to drop a cog or 2, and some steeper interstate hills require this as well. Doesn't bother me one bit, I just love shifting. I find it one of the fast disappearing joys in life.

[Mike Self]

I've noticed over the years (41 or so) that both my cars (69 and 73) have a nice "quiet zone" where the engine settles down and seems happy at about 37-3800 rpm.

The 73 did this on its original engine, and after the rebuild, when I also added a 5 speed. Of course cruising at 70 +/- now is about 3200 rpm vs the previous 38-3900, but if I get up to the latter rpms in 5th (or in 4th) that sweet spot is still there. And it's there on my stock and original 69 engine.

Looks like I wasn't imagining things.

BTW, those red hash marks on the speedmeter are the redline rpms for each gear: 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Remember, tachs were optional even on 2002s in Europe. On all the cars Max Hoffman imported, tachs were one of the "non-optional options."

cheers

mike

[Emyers]

Born there, served there on multiple occasions during thirty years active duty US Army. Lots of changes since inception to current day.

Earl

When the 2002/1600 was imported by Max Hoffman prior to the organization of BMW NA mid 70's, the car was developed in a country that did not have the stretches of interstate we have here in the states, the layout served its purpose nicely as a small family sedan in its home country and the other markets in which it was initially sold. Not many cars built in Europe at that time, that were not seen as sport cars/coupes had five speeds. The car was not designed with the USA in mind where the follow on 320i, did eventually get the five speed overdrive. You can definitely drive at 4000 RPM..just can not drive at 4000 RPM indefinitely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn

[02Les]

When the 2002/1600 was imported by Max Hoffman prior to the organization of BMW NA mid 70's, the car was developed in a country that did not have the stretches of interstate we have here in the states, the layout served its purpose nicely as a small family sedan in its home country and the other markets in which it was initially sold. Not many cars built in Europe at that time, that were not seen as sport cars/coupes had five speeds. The car was not designed with the USA in mind where the follow on 320i, did eventually get the five speed overdrive. You can definitely drive at 4000 RPM..just can not drive at 4000 RPM indefinitely.

Hmmm. My BMW 2002 Glovebox Handbook states cruising speed a couple of mph less than max mph. The car was designed to cruise and cruise fast.

I drove my first of many '02s up & down the "autobahns" in Germany, Austria, Belgium, Italy in the early '70s and to keep up with the traffic flow 4500rpm was a minimum. In those days I never thought the car was loud.

My 4spd Touring quiets down at around 80mph (4k rpm) For some reason the Touring get's better gas mileage than my 5spd Beater.

[BillyRay]

My first 02 was owned in Germany. Schnitzer flared in Agave, great car. I had the same experience; 80mph=smooth. 32/36 4 speed.