Who here owns a first year 02: 66/67 1600-2 or 68 2002?

[BritshIron]

Sorry all. I’m trying iPhone responses while the family computer is occupied. Anyway, I think the above is the only FMVSSA compliance placard that was present on my 1968 1600-2, built in September 1967. Other marques, like the British car Sunbeam, simply had a little sticker for 1968 cars that said “This vehicle is in compliance with US law on the date of manufacture.” It’s a sticky wicket, and I believe highly variable among US imports back in the day. Again, actual compliance components on the cars could have taken years beyond January 1, 1968. Best. Robert 

[BritshIron]

Dear Thread and FAQ community. I made some mistakes in my earlier posts, and I want to correct them, for what it's worth.

 

First, the underlying legislation for the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards mandates is actually called the "National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966." So sorry for the mis-cite. The mind plays tricks with age.

 

Secondly, I'm doing a meticulous restoration on my 1968 1600-2, built in September 1967, but sold new in South San Francisco in 1968. The dealer's sale date on my car is January 1, 1968, but the true deadline date for all of the early Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards to be installed on the cars in the USA was January 31, 1968. As other commenters have noted, these requirements and their actual implementation was, shall we say, a bit delayed passed the deadline in a number of marques, including BMW.

 

As part of my earlier comment, I posted a picture of a reproduction label noting the Manairox exhaust emission system (air pump) that was installed in these early US Federalized cars, pursuant to the new 1968 FMVSS rules. I failed to also post the other label that was with these early Federalized cars, that simply stated the vehicle was built in compliance with the US safety standards in effect at the time of production of the vehicle. This was apparently the only requirement necessary at the time (no VIN number or other features of a modern day FMVSS label). See first photo below.

 

So, to drone on about FMVSS, the British were either completely concerned about meeting the spirit and intent of the requirements, or completely unconcerned. The Morgan Motor Company had early FMVSS labels that were attached to door cards, and even the razor thin Morgan door trailing edges. See attached photos. Morgan famously negotiated a deal with the NHTSA that allowed them to retrofit their cars to burn propane to meet emission standards, and also allowed Morgan dealerships to claim themselves as manufactures, for purposes of meeting FMVSS requirements. On the other hand, The Rootes Group simply put a little label in the engine compartment of their Sunbeam Alpines, stating that the car "Conforms to US Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards at the time of manufacture." See the attached picture of a yellow 1968 Sunbeam Alpine's FMVSS label. 

 

I'm bringing this amount of detail to the group because it's very important in Hawaii, as well as perhaps in California and other States. By new Hawaii rules, you cannot register a car made in 1968 or newer without proof that the car was built to FMVSS standards. My 1968 1600-2 was a little bit of hell to register here. Luckily, I had the original sales receipt for the car from Peter Pan in South San Francisco, and the very rudimentary stickers as shown below. But, beware, a number of States may be looking at proof of FMVSS compliance as a means of eliminating registration of these direct import cars in your states. That could eliminate all post-1968 Direct Import Cars (cars built in other countries and not specifically for the US market) from being registered in your State. Why? Ostensibly for safety and environmental reasons. The truth? Probably to keep folks from restoring and driving wonderful, appreciating older imported cars, and thus not causing you to buy new ones. That's my own conspiracy theory! 

 

See photos below. Thanks for reading. Sorry for my earlier bloopers. Aloha, Robert

 

 

[Conserv]

Wow, Robert! More interesting stuff here — love the Morgan sticker that lists the itemizes with which it does not comply!

 

January 31, 1968. Very interesting, particularly because it’s not January 1st! Now I have to check whether the convention of January 31st carried over into subsequent years, or was simply a feature of the initial effective date.

 

I say this because BMW, in particular, seemed to regularly make government-mandated changes — e.g., shallow grilles in January 1972, beefed-up headrests in January 1973 — during January, and not in time for an expected January 1st effective date!

 

Thanks for tracking down and posting all these details of the FMVSS implementation!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[BritshIron]

Steve, this was nothing more than standard "gum shoe" googling. When I Google National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966, the below in quotes is one of those summary paragraphs that pops up. Things happen within the timeframe of inking the statute of legislation, and actually implementation or "phase in" of the rules and regulations, so the goal posts could have shifted backwards or forwards prior to final publication and mandated deadlines. It's an interesting topic though, at least out here!

Aloha, Robert

 

"In all, the act required the establishment federal motor vehicle safety standards for all new domestic and imported vehicles by January 31, 1968 that would go into effect within a year of publication. Federal standards for used cars were to be developed and instituted within two years."

[der Heilerin]

Quick question regarding these earlier cars. How robust / reliable is the 6v system?  While I know 12v became the standard, is a 6v any less reliable if used as an occasional driver?  Or would you simply treat them as different systems entirely?  

[Conserv]

A 6-volt system is generally as reliable as a 12-volt system in the same condition. That said, some of these cars, at 50 years old, have dodgy wiring — often due to modifications, bad repairs, and clue-less owners and techs. Today, don’t be shocked to find a 12-volt bulb, or two, on a 6-volt car.

 

When new, the weakness of the 6-volt systems showed itself in compromised cold-weather performance. Ca. 1974, my 6-volt ‘67, with 50K miles and a new battery, had a tough time starting the engine when overnight temperatures dropped to 20 degrees Fahrenheit — unless I kept the battery on a charger overnight.

 

So… will you be relying on this 6-volt example to get you to work on frigid mornings?

 

But remember, the current condition of the car, and the condition of its electrical system, may be more relevant than whether it’s a 6-volt or 12-volt example.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[der Heilerin]

Steve-

   Thanks, that is helpful. I’ve been around but not owned 6v cars, though as you describe, all were hobby or weekend cars, not daily drivers. I probably wouldn’t be using the car on a cold morning (it’d be garaged). Though I do wonder if the performance of the headlights / taillights could be improved. 
 

Seems the general engine performance of a 1600 would be equal whether it was a 6v or 12v, correct?

[dasfrogger]

Lighting leaves something to be desired for sure. You’ve just got to be a little more aware than your typical 02.

 

engine performance is the same. Only issue with an original early car are the small brakes and lack of a front sway bar. They’re still great fun though!

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, der Heilerin said:

… Seems the general engine performance of a 1600 would be equal whether it was a 6v or 12v, correct?…

 

Correct!

 

And I seem to recall having H4-style Marchal headlights with 6-volt bulbs, ca. 1974. But I don’t know if 6-volt bulbs are still available. 

 

Once the engine and generator are spinning, you produce plenty of amps!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

[Conserv]

Boy, a 6-volt electrical system would seem like a great place to employ LED bulbs — like for the brake lights! But are 6-volt LED bulbs available? I will note that there are still a lot of 6-volt vehicles alive and kicking: maybe it’s possible to find 6-volt LED bulbs. 
 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[tjones02]

2 hours ago, Conserv said:

But I don’t know if 6-volt bulbs are still available. 

6-volt Bilux and H4, and all regular filament bulbs are available, just not in higher than standard wattages.

 

[jimk]

You will be dealing with a generator (not an alternator) with brushes and commutator on the armature.   I drove a '49 6 volt 'hand me down ca'r from about '59 to '65 and it had to start in Minnesota winter.  Coldest start was -29F.

Parts for the generator can be a challenge to find.

[BarrettN]

MoBrita was working on a 6v->12v step-up for lighting use, you might want to check with him. I'd think that'd be a viable alternative to upgrading the whole system to at least have better lighting. 

[MoBrighta]

On 11/7/2022 at 10:58 AM, BarrettN said:

MoBrita was working on a 6v->12v step-up for lighting use, you might want to check with him. I'd think that'd be a viable alternative to upgrading the whole system to at least have better lighting. 

Yes, indeed!  I built a prototype that provides 12V output with a 6V input using some relays and a 6V Battery (Duracell Sealed Lead Acid) to light 12V High Output bulbs for the Brakes.  It was tested, and worked fine.  The 6V battery was charged by the generator when it was not boosting voltage to the brake lights.

 

Sadly, somehow, that prototype got lost in the sauce...  I suppose I could recreate it from my notes and some pictures I have... if there is any interest.  My guess is that it could serve more than one circuit with additional relays.   Sponsorship is welcome... Nick - are you interested?

 

Coincidentally, my first vehicle was fitted with Marchal Amplilux headlights, and since it was a 1962 model I had to install 6V H1 and H3 bulbs.  Back  in the early 1970s, this was easier than it is today.  Sorry, it was not a BMW... but it had SUPERIOR FORWARD ILLUMINATION.

 

Anyone interested in testing a new prototype for their 6V ride?  Jake, Nicholas?  Just get in touch, we'll see if there's any more reason to pursue this.

Edited November 14, 2022 by MoBrighta

[BritshIron]

Sorry to butt in with a 12 volt question, but my 1600-2 has a 12 volt set-up, even though it was made in September 1967.

Anyway, it's completely apart right now, and soon it will be time to address LED lights. I note the outfit at the link below, and several other retailers are carrying these LED kits. Is there still a problem with flashers, and must the installer still get another relay or install resistors? Anyone having experience with fitting LED lights in older 02 cars, I'd appreciate a response or PM. Aloha, Robert

 

BMW 2002 1966-1973 (Roundie)

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