ALPINA 2002 tii Cylinder Head "Clone" (Cost)

[Guest Anonymous]

I couldn't help myself - eventhough this isn't a project for me (at the moment) I shot off an email to Terry Tinney (Terry Tinney Performance Motors) asking him what the rough order of magnitude would be to re-create the cylinder head portion of an A4 tii (similar to that of the article I posted last week). Funny, I was just looking for a ball part number - got a full estimate (very professional I think). Bottom line, just a hair under $3k ($2,996.03 to be exact). Owner furnished head, rockers and rocker shafts/misc. hardware - so add another $500- or so to have him supply that stuff which would be a good idea - included pressure testing head, valve job, valve adjustment, R&R valve guides, hone to size, R&R seats (for 39/'47mm valves), surface head, hemi chambers, weld chambers, line bore for 320 cam, port match cylinder head to intake manifold. Custom made 39/47mm valves were included as well. He said the 121 head works the best for cutting hemi chambers, but can weld the E12 to be very similar. He also said that he didn't know of any unground big journal blanks, so I would need to put it on a Schrick finished cam - the cost of that was factored in the estimate. Last, there are lots of options if I wanted to use custom valves, such as changing to single groove keepers, and that he would prefer using his custom made phosporous bronze guides, as all of the off the shelf ones he'd seen have too much clearance to start with. Expensive, yes, but not a crazy number for what he is doing.

www.alpinabmw2002.com

[jerry]

okay, your post looks like 'aspirational' food for thought...

i was following along until i read the 320 Cam. there'd be a lot of air and fuel flowing through this engine, right? getting the head cloned is one thing but the issue of the 'modified' KF Pump? what's one to do?

i know wes ingram has a tweak to his rebuilt KF pumps, but who could know if that would supply the proper fuel?

was the head you described above, the baseline setting for their A4 injection? i was thinking Alpina was a mix and match sort of tuner.

[Guest Anonymous]

okay, your post looks like 'aspirational' food for thought...

i was following along until i read the 320 Cam. there'd be a lot of air and fuel flowing through this engine, right? getting the head cloned is one thing but the issue of the 'modified' KF Pump? what's one to do?

i know wes ingram has a tweak to his rebuilt KF pumps, but who could know if that would supply the proper fuel?

was the head you described above, the baseline setting for their A4 injection? i was thinking Alpina was a mix and match sort of tuner.

Yes, there would be.

Regarding cloning a KF pump to match there are some folks that can do it -Gus at PFI I believe can and there are folks overseas as well. I have heard about Wes Ingram's tweaks on pumps but no first hand experience with him. He himself might know as well. No the head that I describe had 1mm larger intakes and a 320 cam vs 300, headers, 11.5:1 CR pistons which is why it makes 190bhp vs 170bhp or so. It may be though that astandard A4 poump would work just fine with the 320 cam. If I were ever to get serious about a project like this I would probably get a hold of ALPINA directly and get the straight story. Again, this is all theoretical as I have to finish the Grp. 2 car first...miles to go on that one. Here is the link to the post on the ALPINA 2002 tii.

http://www.alpinabmw2002.com/2011/01/2002-tii-alpina.html

[dubois]

it doesn't sound too bad, the problem is that is only one element of the whole equation. But once you are in it, what the heck, might as well do it right, on the other there are so many ways to skin a cat...

[Guest Anonymous]

You are right, and as I suggested in the earlier thread......+$50k later. Back to focusing on the Grp. 2 car.

www.alpinabmw2002.com

[stone02]

Hi,

as far as i know their is one shop

that still exists that can do the pump.

H&R Fuel Injection Bohemia Long Island

NY. Hans is getting old but knows this stuff

because he was trained by the factory.

Bosch Germany is his largest client. One

pallet a week is what he used to get from

them to do rebuilds. Bobby Rayhall racecar

had a pump redone by him a few years back

if i remember right. he knows his work

but i worry he may retire soon.

try him at 631-589-1600.

stone

[Guest Anonymous]

I dont' know Hans or H&R, although I spoke to him a few years back, I am quite sure he can do as you suggest. Gus sorted out my ALPINA race pump - didn't really sort out so much as he cleaned it up and tested it, good news for me was their were no issues, although you would just about have to pack one with salt water to jack it up. We discussed replicating it and he said it was doable, didn't really discuss price though so he is definitely capable as well (and about 15 minutes from my house). I believe he did one some 10 years ago for a friend of mine and it was about $1,500-? Same boat with him, getting up there in years and probably realistically doesn't have that much longer in the bus. Last time I was there he had a few BMW pumps and whole bunch of Porsche pumps along with some MBZ - he stays busy. Would be a great business to take over, unfortunately with the cost of living around these parts you would probably have to work 2-3 other jobs and or hit the lottery to make it.....

www.alpinabmw2002.com

[TobyB]

...but if it was only about the performance, one could slap a

moderate turbo onto the side of a healthy normal engine

and probably get more power everywhere....

but of course, it's NOT just about the performance.

Me, I'd still like the M12 head, please...

t

[Guest Anonymous]

...but if it was only about the performance, one could slap a

moderate turbo onto the side of a healthy normal engine

and probably get more power everywhere....

but of course, it's NOT just about the performance.

Me, I'd still like the M12 head, please...

t

Your wish is my command - see link below (and throw in a F2 Header and Hewland Gear Box). If this were still available, and the gear box isn't complete junk, could probably make some $$$ on this deal. Wifey would shoot me if I penned out a check for $13k for this (plus shipping)!

http://www.alpinabmw2002.com/2011/02/bmw-m127-engine-for-sale-hewland-trans.html

[mike472]

Hi,

as far as i know their is one shop

that still exists that can do the pump.

H&R Fuel Injection Bohemia Long Island

NY. Hans is getting old but knows this stuff

because he was trained by the factory.

Bosch Germany is his largest client. One

pallet a week is what he used to get from

them to do rebuilds. Bobby Rayhall racecar

had a pump redone by him a few years back

if i remember right. he knows his work

but i worry he may retire soon.

try him at 631-589-1600.

stone

I know Hans and Rudy(H&R)in Bohemia, NY They converted an 82 635CSi euro model for me in the 80's when I first met them. There is nobody on the east coast that is more familiar with the KF pump then these guys. Hans told me he can tailor a pump to produce the right amount of fuel for a given horsepower. He certainly has some sophisticated equipment to measure the output of the pumps. He had on machine there that measured the amount of fuel being put out by each piston in the pump by spinning the pump in a fixture that filled graduated glass cylinders on this machine he had from Bosch. He always had a pretty exotic assortment of cars around every time I went there. He also has the requisite heavy German accent and can be a lot of fun to listen to besides being a truly knowledgeable about the KF pumps. In fact he told me he could reproduce the pump on the 2002 Turbo. I'm sure he could successfully clone the Alpina pump.