2002 tii Turbo

[ahpolar]

Hey, question about adding a turbo to my tii. Should I do the S14 swap if I plan to add the turbo? Or will I be alright without it? I'm still new to all this, so bear with me haha

[jerry]

i think you'll be just fine without it....

[c.d.iesel]

...yea - you'll need special injection pump, low compression pistons,

different ignition with boost retard, oil cooler with thermostat

control, and larger radiator just for starters..............

and it should end up looking something like this

when yer done =

[ahpolar]

Thanks! I'm just trying to get an idea of what I have to get and the work involved. I'm still working on the body, so engine is far off from being rebuilt.

But thanks for the help!

[Preyupy]

You can not put a turbo on a Tii and use the stock injection pump. There is no way to accuratly reference boost to richen the mixture. If you want to turbo a M10 I would recomend some kind of electronic fuel injection that will give you the ability to tune for off boost as well as boosted.

As cool as a real 2002 Turbo is there is so much more available in the way of Turbo charger technology and fuel/ignition management that the 170 hp and 170 lb/ft of torque the factory made in 1974 is just a start by todays standards.

[Harv]

I have nothing to add to this but a question. Does the tii pump have an electric enrichment solenoid like a SPICA pump? A friend of mine hung a turbo on an Alfa years ago and fired the enrichment valve under boost. Worked well but the cold start enrichment had to be backed off a bit.

John

[Guest]

1. Sell Tii motor to someone who needs it

2. Buy and rebuild carb'd M10 at ~8.5:1 compression

3. Swap carb for Megasquirt setup

4. turbo that w/GT2560 for quick spool <275hp, GT28 for <350, GT30 for 400+ but with major lag

5. Get more power, better mileage, and save money vs turboing a tii motor

6. 2002haus E30 diff/rear subframe combo if you want above ~250hp and drive hard but don't want to worrying about the diff exploding

[Preyupy]

I have nothing to add to this but a question. Does the tii pump have an electric enrichment solenoid like a SPICA pump? A friend of mine hung a turbo on an Alfa years ago and fired the enrichment valve under boost. Worked well but the cold start enrichment had to be backed off a bit.

John

No it does not but you could try and rig something up that would move the external cold start lever on the pump to richen it up but it is still not a system that measures the amount of air going into the engine to make a decision on how much fuel to add. A MAF or even MAP sensor and electronic FI is the way to go. Mechanical injection is great for what it was in it's day but EFI is tuneable with a lap top, mechanical is tunable with SWAG (scientific wild ass guess) unless you are set up to re machine the metering cone inside the pump.

[conkitchen]

For what it's worth:

The Century system on the E21 turbo set up installed by the dealer used the cold start to enrich under boost. There was a Hobbs switch tapped into the intake. The K-Jet would go into open Lambda ( or whatever they call it) and fire the "5th injector" as on or off. Nothing in ways of metering, just extra fuel. So one might think you could do a similar thing with the tii cold start, though I doubt it will yeild enough fuel under boost.

I have nothing to add to this but a question. Does the tii pump have an electric enrichment solenoid like a SPICA pump? A friend of mine hung a turbo on an Alfa years ago and fired the enrichment valve under boost. Worked well but the cold start enrichment had to be backed off a bit.

John

No it does not but you could try and rig something up that would move the external cold start lever on the pump to richen it up but it is still not a system that measures the amount of air going into the engine to make a decision on how much fuel to add. A MAF or even MAP sensor and electronic FI is the way to go. Mechanical injection is great for what it was in it's day but EFI is tuneable with a lap top, mechanical is tunable with SWAG (scientific wild ass guess) unless you are set up to re machine the metering cone inside the pump.

[Preyupy]

The early E21 turbo systems from BAE & Calaway for the 2 liter cars (before O2 sensors) did use an auxiliary enrichment system that fired the cold start injector but the K Jet system had the ability to sense airflow into the engine (moveable sensor plate that actuated the plunger on the fuel metering unit) this system was capable of compensating for as much as 7-8 psi of boost without the auxiliary enrichment system. The Tii injection pump has no ability to measure the amount of air flow into the engine, all it sees is throttle position and engine speed. The system has a cone inside the pump that controls the amount of fuel injected and it was set up at the factory knowing that at any specific engine speed and throttle opening a very specific amount of fuel should be injected into the port, this is assuming normal atmospheric pressure. If you start blowing the air into the engine at 6-7 psi you are increasing the air flow by 40-50% with no way of increasing the fuel delivery by an equal amount. Just turning on the cold start injector to start spraying fuel into the manifold is a very crude way of adding fuel and not accurate enough to even come close to the right amount, at best it will be more than is needed and it will run rich but safe, if there is not enough fuel it will go lean and most likely do damage.

You can not compare Kugleficher, Spica, or any other mechanical injection system to a K-jet, L-jet, motronic or any injection system that has any kind of air flow metering ( this includes the old flapper door type air flow meters, hot wire MAF sensors, airflow plates on the K-jet systems or even the MAP sensors some of the domestic FI systems used to use) as they all had some system to sense how much air was ACTUALLY going into the engine instead of just squirting the amount of fuel it was told to squirt when the throttle is at position X and the engine is at speed Y not knowing if there is any air flow at all.

[PatAllen]

your better off with this...

couldnt resist.

http://www.turbowhistler.net/

[conkitchen]

your better off with this...

couldnt resist.

http://www.turbowhistler.net/

Sheesch! now you offer up this simple solution. Where were you in 2005 when I started my project? Tens of thousands later.

What would happen if a real turbo had this device installed?

[PatAllen]

your better off with this...

couldnt resist.

http://www.turbowhistler.net/

Sheesch! now you offer up this simple solution. Where were you in 2005 when I started my project? Tens of thousands later.

What would happen if a real turbo had this device installed?

maybe the sound will get cancelled ? lol...

[flyingjolly]

lol i'd give that thing a heavier flywheel so it lags before and runs a while longer than you're on the gas, that'd sound more like a turbo

[PatAllen]

i think the guy deserve a bit more...

I dont think the guy is keeping the KF system since he wants to install a S14 ?

And CD suggestion is out of place, nobody would want logicaly to build a turbo system from scratch like if we where still in 1974.

The picture looks nice, but you dont want that, for a fraction of the cost of doing that you can get a very strong M10 with a MS system on it +turbo with 10-14psi of boost en plenty of juice.

-i run 18 psi on mine, i dont have forged pistons and it uses 100% stock internals, stock gasket, 5 times reused head bolts.