engine and drivetrain Thinking about a 1974, what do you think? (pictures)

[rstl99]

Hi,

I just looked at a 74 2002 for sale locally. I took a bunch of pictures which I placed at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37108499@N03/sets/72157626920411685/

The car has obviously been painted (not very well) at some time, and some more recent non-matching repairs and paint touchups were done. Interior looks decent. Underneath looks pretty solid, trunk looks good, shock towers, etc.

Engine does not run, needs some work on the carb. The seller assures me that it runs well. It recently had all brake parts replaced, including flex hoses etc.

I'm using the non-running condition and the poor paint to justify my offer. Owner wants $5K and I am thinking of offering $3K. Is that too much?? The car must be sold, owner has no room to store it. I'm looking for a project car that I can drive occasionally.

I would appreciate your opinion, based on the pictures, on the condition and worthiness of this north-east specimen (from a body perspective mainly, I figure I can tackle mechanical issues that may arise).

Thanks a lot.

[FunElan]

Defintely not worth 5k. In my opinion its worth 2k.

[rstl99]

Defintely not worth 5k. In my opinion its worth 2k.

Thanks for your quick response. Is your estimate based on general body condition and non-running state? Are there any particular aspects of the body that you find troubling or of concern? I realize the bad paint and the copious undercoating underneath could hide a fair bit of rust/repairs... I was hoping this might be a reasonably solid specimen, body-wise (as far as northeasters go that is! :-), but I haven't seen enough of these to tell, hence my appreciation for keen eyes here having a look at it. Cheers.

[PaulEBirmingham]

I'd say $3K or even $2.5K is high, based on the fact that it isn't running. Given that, it would be difficult to check the operation of other critical components, ie. brakes, tranny, steering, etc.

I'm always curious when sellers say something is an "easy fix" or cite some extremely low estimate for repairs. My thought is that if it were _really_ that easy, they would fix it, and not have to lower the price.

Best of luck on you search!

[Harv]

Not to be negative but 3k for a non running 74 with poor paint is a bad deal. Wait till you get it to run and find no oil pressure or worse.

Is it otherwise complete?

Can a fellow FAQer go look at it with you?

John

[rstl99]

I'd say $3K or even $2.5K is high, based on the fact that it isn't running. Given that, it would be difficult to check the operation of other critical components, ie. brakes, tranny, steering, etc.

I'm always curious when sellers say something is an "easy fix" or cite some extremely low estimate for repairs. My thought is that if it were _really_ that easy, they would fix it, and not have to lower the price.

Best of luck on you search!

Thanks! My search is limited in the ones that come up for sale locally (for now I'm keeping my search local), which is few and far between, and not usually in great shape...

I was talking to the seller's father and suggested that indeed he'd likely get more money for it if it ran, because people want to drive it around the block, check out the clutch, tranny, etc. Otherwise it's buying on faith, and that's not a recipe for a happy outcome (for the buyer). the car is taking up room in a garage and has to be sold, but the seller may have unreasonable expectations, and may have paid too much for it when he acquired it a couple of years ago (and evidently spent a fair amount of money putting a sound system in :-)

[FunElan]

Yea, mostly because the paint job isn't great, and it isn't running. It also needs a suspension overhaul. Those things would be a deal breaker for me but if you're ambitious offer him 2k! 2.3k at the most.

[rstl99]

Not to be negative but 3k for a non running 74 with poor paint is a bad deal. Wait till you get it to run and find no oil pressure or worse.

Is it otherwise complete?

Can a fellow FAQer go look at it with you?

John

Indeed, not running is not good, even though it can allow negotiating significantly downward.

In reading about these cars, I have read that the most critical aspect to look at is the body, which is very rust-prone and very expensive to fix well. So I was looking more at that aspect than anything else. It's not perfect but I've seen a lot worse, incredibly. Mind you, take the paint and undercoating off and it may reveal bad surprises...

It looked fairly complete to my untrained eye.

Anyway, sounds like it might not be worth considering, except for a very low price that the seller would probably not go for.

[rstl99]

Yea, mostly because the paint job isn't great, and it isn't running. It also needs a suspension overhaul. Those things would be a deal breaker for me but if you're ambitious offer him 2k! 2.3k at the most.

Thanks for pointing out the suspension issue. I wouldn't have known just by looking at it, so appreciate your insight on that!!

Not sure how ambitious I am. I'm just retired and was looking for a bit of a project to stick in my garage and wield wrenches on. I don't really want to wield grinders, sanders and welders though... So it might be best to wait for something better, body wise. Cheers.[/u]

[carlkkreienkamp]

I'm pretty sure that the car is NOT a '74 which still had exhaust pipe exiting under rt. side of bumper....

What else... check V .I. N. tags on body , motor and see if (1) they match and (2) what year(s) they come up as when they are entered into realoem.com site. The rear shock/wheel tubs look sort of rough...maybe check with magnet/wirebrush for metal integrity. May or may not need suspension rebuild. WHY does engine not start? Will motor spin with starter? if so can you pull the spark plugs and do a compression test on all cylinders/what numbers do they produce? What do plugs look like? If engine does not spin with starter could be looking at major rebuild=$$2,000++in parts.

Seats ( f and r) are not stock 2002- Look like ?? later 5-6-? series. Is maybe a ++ for you.

Good luck and good night.

[rstl99]

I'm pretty sure that the car is NOT a '74 which still had exhaust pipe exiting under rt. side of bumper....

What else... check V .I. N. tags on body , motor and see if (1) they match and (2) what year(s) they come up as when they are entered into realoem.com site. The rear shock/wheel tubs look sort of rough...maybe check with magnet/wirebrush for metal integrity. May or may not need suspension rebuild. WHY does engine not start? Will motor spin with starter? if so can you pull the spark plugs and do a compression test on all cylinders/what numbers do they produce? What do plugs look like? If engine does not spin with starter could be looking at major rebuild=$$2,000++in parts.

Seats ( f and r) are not stock 2002- Look like ?? later 5-6-? series. Is maybe a ++ for you.

Good luck and good night.

Thanks, that's very helpful advice.

I looked up the VINs on realoem. The engine bay tag and body stamp match, and indicate a 03/75 build, so it's a 75 (good eye!). The engine stamp (on the top of the rear right?) indicates 01/76 so the engine is not original.

The man showing me the car (seller's father) said it starts, but then stalls out and doesn't start again. The BMW mechanic he's gotten parts from said it might result from old stale gas left in there over winter. The engine turns fine with the starter, just doesn't fire. As you say, one could do compression test if so inclined...

Didn't realize seats weren't original, that's how much I know about old BMW's!

Rear shock/wheel wells looked and felt solid when I rapped on them. They seem to be covered with some hard rust-proofing material of some kind. I had brought a magnet but forgot to take it out.

I basically went there to see if the car looked at all interesting at first blush (there were no pics on the ad, though the seller will be adding some), and to look at the underneath (with camera). If I was serious in pursuing (though for much less money) I'd likely check everything out with a magnet (bottom of panels, etc.), and do a compression test.

I noticed what looked like a galvanized patch on the right hand side of the firewall, it's in one of the pictures I took.

I don't know what kind of carb is in there, which is why I took a picture with the air cleaner cover off, hoping someone could identify it.

Thanks again!

[FunElan]

The carb is probably the stock Solex 2 barrel. Most people replaced these with Webers. The starting and dying could be many things: Clogged jets, bad fuel filter, bad gas, spark plugs, etc.

[rstl99]

The carb is probably the stock Solex 2 barrel. Most people replaced these with Webers. The starting and dying could be many things: Clogged jets, bad fuel filter, bad gas, spark plugs, etc.

Thanks I had read that many people put Webers on it, and wasn't sure what is in there now. Yeah, I figured the fuel system needs some attention, maybe it needs a carb kit (gee, been a while since I've done THAT on a car, put a carb kit in...)

One thing I noticed is that the spark plugs wire seemed really loose on the plugs. I just gave a slight yank and it popped right off. On most cars I've owned (the non-diesel ones that is!), there is a more solid/secure connection there. Maybe BMW's are made like that...

If I could tell that the car has pretty good structural integrity (rust-wise), I might be able to have a go at the cosmetic aspects of the body, and get it nicely painted. But I don't have enough of an eye for that on these cars. And if I knew that all it needed was a carb overhaul and tuneup, I'd be ready to have a go at it. As it stands though, it's probably too much of a crap shoot. And I don't want to get something that's going to turn out being more hassle than fun (even though I enjoy tinkering with mechanicals).

[c.d.iesel]

thank you rstl99 for doing your diligence with the EXCELLENT

photo gallery

- we can all discuss this car with accuracy and give you,

and the seller if they're listening, facts to chew on.

NOT RUNNING, NOT DRIVING = $150 car .

too much hidden under dubious body repairs

no knowledge of condition of any of the running gear,

drive train, motor, electrics without a 1-hour road test from cold

start.

statements from the seller mean nothing with a dead car

sitting in front of you

don't even make an offer - wait - there are far better 'honest'

cars available.

happy hunting

c.d.

[rstl99]

All I can say C.D., is "amen to that, brother!" :-)

Indeed, there will be other, better ones, near or far.

Looking at a specimen, taking pictures, and getting informed advice and insight from kind members of this list, is extremely informative and educational.

Thanks to all for your comments, and hope the pictures provided you with some entertainment at the very least.

Best regards.

... until the next (right?) one...