engine and drivetrain I need some advice on restoring vs buying complete...

[markmac]

Alot said in previous threads so I won't try to repeat (too much anyway).

#1- Make sure you have access to a good (very good) mechanic that can service and repair your o2/tii. That sounds simple, but lets face it the really good o2 wrenches are few and far between. Assuming you don't have the time, inclination or skill to do the services/repair yourself. This is a big deal I think.

#2- Don't be disuaded to buy some other BMW other than what you want (E30, M3, whatever), if you want an o2 go get one.

#3- What you describe is what in the real estate bus we would call a "build to suit" (and applies to some other bus. as well...). You have a very specific set of specifications you want met for your car, you may find some but safe to say unlikely to find all (unless you are incredibly patient and lucky). I recently had someone approach me regarding a similar type project on an o2 (build to suit), which I am considering, just depends if I have the time (which currently I don't, and can make a decent profit from it (have already made my "donations" over the past few years so....). So long as you find someone that you are positive can do the job you want and provide meet your expectations this would be the way to go I think, but again it will cost some $$$.

#4- Negative on the kid with an o2. Find somethng safe with air bags, just in case. I found a relatively low mileagee Audi A4 Avant (1.8 Turbo) for my son, which both my boys were in earlier this fall - pile driven from behind -totalled, no fault of their own. Walked away uninjured. That wouldn't have been the case in an o2 sorry to say.

Good luck with your project.

www.alpinabmw2002.com

[BillyRay]

Keith Martin, Venerable collector car Guru says: buy the best car you can afford. You will enjoy it more immediately; buy one that is not quite right or that needs work and 90 days after your purchase, buyers remorse will set in.

Good advice from an expert in all cars collectible.

"Z"

[pkchopp]

Got my first 2002 when I was in 11th grade. A sweet 69' and so began a life long love for the car... 4 2002's later at the age of 56 I still love my 02. So I say if she wants one Go for it!

[AndyS]

Buy the best one you can afford. Actually buy 2 if you can. One with big bumpers and a roundie. The roundie for you and the big bumper car for your daughter. My wife has been driving an 02 for 20 years and she was pregnant 3 times early in that 20. she was hit in our inka squaretailed big bumper 02. IT destroyed the Lexus and she drove the 02 home. My 22 year old learned to drive the 02 my wife owns now when she was 13. We did have a long drive way and some dirt roads. As far mechanical stuff, I can change oil and tires and use the phone to call for help.

Just my .02 cents worth.

[Mike_R]

I got lucky & found a rust free running 75 with some work done for $3500 8 years & $15,000 ago. New engine, front & rear overhauled sub frame & suspension, lots of other stuff but not restored! So I average around $2,000 a year for a "hobby".

[jate]

Some really excellent advice... thank you guys so much! It helps getting a broad spectrum of viewpoints.

One good thing for me is that it is really only a 2nd car so I wouldn't drive it in the snow or salt conditions. Actually I probably would not even drive it in the rain. We have 300 sunny days a year here so it will be easy to cherry pick the days I drive.

I figure it will be over $20k to do a decent restoration - that would include completely disassembling the car, rebuilt motor, 5spd conversion, new interior, new tires and wheels, suspension and the 5,000 other little things that get done.

I have seen some cars go up for sale that fit that bill but at a lower price which could be an option. I do worry that I would spend a lot of money to get someone's car that did half baked work but cosmetically it looks good. One advantage to having it done it yourself is I would at least have more control over quality throughout the process.

I could buy a newer car but I have had several older BMWs that are definitely more comfortable such as mid 80s M6, 635CSI, 535iS, 735i. But I am looking for a fun little car that gets good gas mileage that I can drive 1 -2 days a week.

Do the newer converted AC systems still not put much cold out? I know that all of my other cars had original AC and it was rather anemic but I didn't know how they would perform if a modern AC was put in.

Any other advice is welcomed!

JT

[jate]

That is great Andy. Living in SLC my daughter want have to drive far to wherever she is going and it is always surface streets. I can see in CA or other big metropolis areas any driving can be a hazzard/risk. I hadn't thought much about a 318, do those come with airbags?

As for my mechanical skills, I actually own a Mobil 1 Lube Express so all I have to do is use the phone

[eurotrash]

Do the newer converted AC systems still not put much cold out?

JT

Its a CFM problem, not a temperature problem. The 2002 HVAC system doesn't move much air compared to the modern systems.

You sound like you want an 02. Find one, buy it, get to know it, love it. Just take my advice and vet the car (and seller) well, with inspection by a knowledgeable enthusiast or mechanic.

[bluedevils]

Don't waste your time, order a brand new 72 tii from Werkshop in IL: http://www.thewerkshop.net/

will cost you about 70K or more, they can put all the options you want (I have no affiliations with WS). It will still not be as good as your late model 911 or BMW M3 coupe, and you will soon be tired of low power, hi noise level, bad gas smell, and funny tail behavior (which is fun for some of us!) E30s drive and feel very different than 2002/tii, too smooth and easy for my taste (I own both).

just my 15 cents..

[malagalaga]

I'm glad you're asking here rather than taking the plunge and making a mistake either way. Good points throughout this thread. Let me throw in my $.02...

I'd find a nice standard 2002 that someone has restored. Here's why:

1) You'll pay way more than a lot of people here think is reasonable for a 2002, yes, but you'll get one of the level you're seeking.

2) If you have any doubts about undertaking a restoration yourself, don't bother. It's a labor of love that will cost a fortune. For many people, that's a sacrifice they wouldn't consider not making. For some (myself included), it's better to sit back and watch others take on a restoration. I know I couldn't devote the time to a restoration and I know my skills are by no means up to par.

3) Be flexible on color. Ceylon is extremely rare, Fjord less so. Don't respray a car in a different color unless you strip the body entirely. You're going to find the original color somewhere on it. Original paint color does slightly improve value now, but not a lot.

4) '02 A/C sucks. My car has a sanden compressor and it blows ice cold air, but, as others have said, air distribution is subpar since it comes from one area. You'll never realize how good modern car a/c is until you've driven an '02 with it. That said, I can now comfortably drive my car in 95 degree sunny weather, as long as it hasn't been sitting out in the sun all day with the windows closed.

5) The MM motors are STOUT. I had one with a lot of miles on it on an '02 and I loved it. The low-end torque was phenomenal. But that's not to say that I don't derive just as much joy from my 100 hp stock engine car. At 2,200ish lbs. dripping wet, these are lightweight cars and they are well-geared to make the most of the available power.

6) Test the Recaros before you get too involved in them. If you want the cushy stock seats, they're easy to find and recover in a stock-style vinyl. The Recaros are firm and supportive, but they're also narrow. I'm not a big guy, but I find myself taking my wallet and cell phone out before sitting down in my car. The Recaros also sit lower to the ground unless you make some adjustments.

And, yes, I agree with others that a 2002 is not a great car for a 16 year old. Does she show any mechanical inclinations? If so, you might consider buying a very nice car for you and a project car for both of you. Consider it a bonding project! But give her a modern car to drive every day.

Hope this helps! You'll get no shortage of opinions here... do what you feel suits you best and don't be afraid to ask questions.

[jate]

That is great Andy. Living in SLC my daughter want have to drive far to wherever she is going and it is always surface streets. I can see in CA or other big metropolis areas any driving can be a hazzard/risk. I hadn't thought much about a 318, do those come with airbags?

As for my mechanical skills, I actually own a Mobil 1 Lube Express so all I have to do is use the phone

[eurotrash]

My daughters first car was a '76 automatic. She bought it herself with a installment loan from her uncle, just before her 16th birthday. She rebuilt a weber herself, to replace the ailing solex, drive it for a year or so, and under influence of her friends havIng modern cars, sold it to a good home last January.

She misses her 2002 and regrets selling it. She swears she'll have another.

This is a pic of her first time starting and driving off.

This is how I felt.

[net30]

I was in the same boat as you when I was looking. Talked to Werkshop and a few of the other high end restoration shops and found out that a 9 point tii would run $50-$70k plus the cost of the donor car - YIKES! When you look at the availability of really clean already restored cars (few and far between) it was rare to find a car that was more than $20-$22k...the economics just don't work when you figure you've lost $40k+ when you go to sell your "recently restored" tii. I love our little cars but they don't have the same intrinsic value and ability to increase in $ as an older 911, Benz, Detroit Muscle Car etc. Find a car that was recently restored and owned by an enthusiast, make a few tweaks to make it your own and have fun driving it. I added AC using all new components and a perfect Fridgking console and it cost around $2500.

[Guest Anonymous]

just buy a 2002 nothing feels like it buy it in any shape any condition its the same fun

[MikeWooldridge]

Just buy mine and drive.