engine and drivetrain a word of caution concerning eBay descriptions

[jerry]

i've been searching for linkage for a set of mikuni carbs i have and was directed to an eBay vendor selling what appears to be rather sharp-looking link arms for what i consider a premium price. reading his description i came across the text "all hardware is made of stainless steel" or words to that effect. in my line of work, any item not directly related to the function of the engine is considered hardware: brackets, linkage, etc.

well, i obviously struck a nerve with this guy for calling him out in my not too subtle way.

what i don't understand is why-oh-why did he have to disparage my affection for BMW 2002's. he crossed the line there....

a scorned 02'er is an ugly thing....

READ for yourself-

hanksjim1 wrote:

You may want to check with this guy for linkage (he may also have airhorns available)...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200708727752?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

in my opinion, this vendor is being willfully deceptive in his description of his link arm, giving the impression that it is made of stainless steel. he is splitting hairs on HIS use of the term 'hardware'.

thought i'd share a recent dialog i had with this vendor:

Dear jalls1,

My discription makes perfect sense to intellegent people.

The term 'hardware' means nuts, bolts, washers, etc., not the main item being sold.

I do not sell to idiots, or people who whant to tell me I am wrong.

Only an idiot would think that anyone would make linkage arms out of stainless steel.

Your blocked.

Go buy your rusty BMW2002 parts somewhere else.

- duax_machine

From: jalls1

To: duax_machine

Subject: Re: Details about item: jalls1 sent a message about Sidedraft Manifold Weber-Mikuni-Delorto Billet Linkage Arm for 10mm Cross Shaft #360443537456

Sent Date: Mar-25-12 12:35:04 PDT

Dear duax_machine,

i'm glad i asked. your description suggests otherwise...

- jalls1

From: duax_machine

To: jalls1

Subject: Re: Details about item: jalls1 sent a message about Sidedraft Manifold Weber-Mikuni-Delorto Billet Linkage Arm for 10mm Cross Shaft #360443537456

Sent Date: Mar-25-12 09:41:02 PDT

Dear jalls1,

'Hardware' means the bolts.

The arms are aluminum.

- duax_machine

From: jalls1

To: duax_machine

Subject: Details about item: jalls1 sent a message about Sidedraft Manifold Weber-Mikuni-Delorto Billet Linkage Arm for 10mm Cross Shaft #360443537456

Sent Date: Mar-25-12 09:39:16 PDT

Dear duax_machine,

hi, i want to be certain that when you refer to "all hardware is stainless", you are referring to both the allen head screws and the link arm itself? sorry to be picky, but on eBay, it is better to ask than assume...

[Simeon]

Respectfully, I read hardware as just referring to the nuts and bolts. Just stuff you can buy in a hardware store that are generic.

That being said, what an @sshole!

You do an entirely correct thing to establish in advance what your understanding of the offer is and he responds like that? Would he prefer that you just bought the thing and then bitched about him later, marking his feed back down? I don't blame you for being upset. Isn't there a process to report vendors to eBay for just this kind of thing?

[williamggruff]

"My discription [spelling error] makes perfect sense to intellegent [spelling error] people. [unsubstantiated claim, begging the question, indirect ad hominem attack]

The term 'hardware' means nuts, bolts, washers, etc., not the main item being sold. [unsubstantiated claim]

I do not sell to idiots, or people who whant [spelling error] to tell me I am wrong.

Only an idiot would think that anyone would make linkage arms out of stainless steel. [unsubstantiated claim, ad hominem attack]

Your [grammar error] blocked.

Go buy your rusty BMW2002 parts somewhere else.

Well, I guess he/she put you in your place. For the record, I agree with the OP--"all hardware" means the whole kit and kaboodle, not just the nuts and bolts.

Poor communication. Wouldn't buy again. Buyers beware. Etc.

[LimeySteve]

I have to agree with the seller, Billet is a metaphor for aluminum , hardware is the nuts & bolts , spacers etc. I don't agree with how he answered you , a simple "billet aluminum arm with stainless hardware " would have been enough.Nice looking parts too .

[jerry]

I don't blame you for being upset. Isn't there a process to report vendors to eBay for just this kind of thing?

actually, i'm not upset. i thought it was more on the comical side as to his reaction. but it did cause me a little self-doubt about my understanding of what 'hardware' is. however, i confirmed with two co-workers who agreed with my use of the term hardware, at least as it relates to the aero-engine field.

my thought is he could have avoided all ambiguity by merely stating that both screws were stainless steel. i personally don't think it was an innocent oversight.

but to disparage the innocent 02's???? that just hurts to the quick...

[hanksjim1]

sorry for the cluster F...I merely forwarded an ebay link. NM/NA btw, my original Mikuni levers are aluminium with stainless bits...sorry this guy is a datsun biggot, but there was where most of the Mikunis were sold...I certainly don't have a dog in this fight...

[jerry]

I have to agree with the seller, Billet is a metaphor for aluminum , hardware is the nuts & bolts , spacers etc. I don't agree with how he answered you , a simple "billet aluminum arm with stainless hardware " would have been enough.Nice looking parts too .

i was not aware that the term billet was exclusively meant for aluminum...

perhaps it's an industry colloquialism?

[Simeon]

I have to agree with the seller, Billet is a metaphor for aluminum , hardware is the nuts & bolts , spacers etc. I don't agree with how he answered you , a simple "billet aluminum arm with stainless hardware " would have been enough.Nice looking parts too .

i was not aware that the term billet was exclusively meant for aluminum...

perhaps it's an industry colloquialism?

My understanding is that a billet is a piece of metal that has not been processed by any process other than forging or rolling. It doesn't imply what the material is.

This phrase has been taken in common usage to mean 'machined from scratch' without a reference from what it was machined from and is a popular phrase in hot rodding and car modification. To me a billet is just a piece of stock awaiting machining

[rcraig]

I have to agree with the seller, Billet is a metaphor for aluminum , hardware is the nuts & bolts , spacers etc. I don't agree with how he answered you , a simple "billet aluminum arm with stainless hardware " would have been enough.Nice looking parts too .

i was not aware that the term billet was exclusively meant for aluminum...

perhaps it's an industry colloquialism?

My understanding is that a billet is a piece of metal that has not been processed by any process other than forging or rolling. It doesn't imply what the material is.

This phrase has been taken in common usage to mean 'machined from scratch' without a reference from what it was machined from and is a popular phrase in hot rodding and car modification. To me a billet is just a piece of stock awaiting machining

It has all become crescent wrench terminology.

[02Les]

Apart from a British soldier's living quarters, a Billet can be made of various metals.

However, Billet is commonly used in the aluminium/aluminum industry.

A steel Billet is commonly called Bar Stock (at least for the Mills I'm putting in).

Hardware, to me, is all the bits and pieces necessary to mount/install the main piece of equipment, ie, nuts, bolts, washers.

JMHO

[LimeySteve]

The term is literally correct as a piece of metal but in the auto aftermaket industry Billet is "usually " aluminum, as in Billet wheels , they are not stainless steel but aluminum .To machine those small parts from billet stainless steel would be cost prohibitive , I know we make both stainless steel parts & aluminum parts , the difference in material costs is astronomical.I'm not trying to be a smart arse but he is in the same industry I'm in & when we use the term billet we mean aluminum, when parts are made from stainless steel we call them stainless steel.

[TKMad]

Nuts and bolts are fasteners.

Bracketry is hardware.

And billet is any metal. Unless those billet cams and cranks I see advertised are aluminum.

That's how we use the terms in the aircraft industry anyway.

[02Les]

Nuts and bolts are fasteners.

Bracketry is hardware.

And billet is any metal. Unless those billet cams and cranks I see advertised are aluminum.

That's how we use the terms in the aircraft industry anyway.

I'd better not change industries. I'd screw up in a heartbeat.

Coming from the other side of the pond, i'm reminded...."two Countries separated by a common language"...he he.

[Cyclone101]

The term is literally correct as a piece of metal but in the auto aftermaket industry Billet is "usually " aluminum, as in Billet wheels , they are not stainless steel but aluminum .To machine those small parts from billet stainless steel would be cost prohibitive , I know we make both stainless steel parts & aluminum parts , the difference in material costs is astronomical.I'm not trying to be a smart arse but he is in the same industry I'm in & when we use the term billet we mean aluminum, when parts are made from stainless steel we call them stainless steel.

You might use billet as slang for aluminium, and yes, aluminium is cheapest to machine, but that does not change the definition of the word. Billet 4340 is very common, as is 1020. Yes stainless is less so, but still used in many places. What would happen if you put "Billet" on a machine drawing as the material and send it to a shop to produce? Not one place that I know of would just assume it is Al. They would send it back to you and call you an idiot. (from my Eng. experience) The OP asked a valid question, and the seller flamed. I think the seller is ignorant not to see the possible confusion with his add.

Regards

Jacques

[Otis]

(nt)