psuedo "outlaw" 02

[sking]

Hi guys....its popped up here a couple times and I have some more detailed pictures. Im considering this one, but a couple of the under carriage pics show some seriously hungry rust.

Someone said possible no sale on ebay at $7100.00

Here is the listing at Flemmeings: http://www.flemingsultimategarage.com/1970-bmw-2002--c-1617.htm

and here are the pics the guys at Flemmings sent me...

Is the rust / rot in picture 2 too much? See the actual rot there?

[roadhog0]

I wouldnt pay more than a few grand for that... A fair minimal rust 02 in WA is cheap so I am biased. But I would be afraid of that rust.

[eastsidebimmer]

Hello, I'm sorry--I really don't like this car--it might be fun for 3K but I wouldn't want to pay good money for it. It's been around for awhile--if you grow tired of it, you'd have a hard time selling it too. If you remove the white walls you just have a chrome delete car with so-so paint. I'm sure this is a fun car but not at this money.

[ClayW]

2.0 liter OHC 4 cyl w/ correct Solex carb, original 4-speed manual trans, McPherson strut suspension, great looking Matte black paint, original black bucket seat interior, factory gauges w/ 120mph speedo & 8K tach, power disc brakes, front & rear sway bars, Behr aluminum composite radiator, MoMo 3-spoke padded leather wheel, racing mirrors, original factory steel wheels w/ radials, great sounding free flow exhaust, priced to finish or just drive.

I've learned to spot this red flag: Ads that make a point to mention stock stuff like it's something special. This means that they're trying to sell to the uninformed, which is to say that they hope you don't know what you're buying.

Translation: Bad News.

I agree with others: This might be a fun car for a few thousand dollars, assuming that it's not a mechanical nightmare. However, there's very little value in customized 2002s.

Also, Flemings doesn't seem to know anything about 2002s. They were the ones that kept trying to sell a very poorly restored Taiga 2002tii for $18K.

[Guest Anonymous]

You can do WAAAYYY better for 7 grand.

[Chamonix72]

So, he wants $7100 for essentially a stock car with painted wheels and wide white walls. If it had some "go" along with the "show", maybe it might be worth that kind of coin. It doesn't look like a bad car at all. It seems fairly solid, and I like the looks for the most part. But it's really nothing special. For that price I want completely stock and good condition or lots of well-done upgrades to the running gear and interior. This is neither. It's a great starting point, but I'm not paying 7 large for a starting point.

[sking]

Agree with all the above! Thanks all!!

[ClayW]

I'm going to break this one down further. It's important to know why this is a turd. To be fair, I don't hate this car, or even it's aesthetic; I just feel like there are a number of things that keep this car from being worth more than a maximum of $2500. I don't agree with what looks like throwing some paint and carpet into a car and then selling it for that much.

Poor quality paint. $7K+ cars should have nice paint, even if it is matte.

The airdam looks like a drunk guy screwed it on after cutting it in half. Is that electrical tape?

It's more and more obvious that the paintjob is sub-par when you see the places that were missed, like behind the wiring. Nothing says, "I paid less than $500 for paint" like evidence that no one bothered to move the wiring out of the way to paint behind it.

Again, nothing is wrong with less than perfect quality, but it's just not worth $7K or more.

More missed paint. Also, I've begun to view a black-painted trunk as red flag. Maybe it's an unfair generalization, but black seems to be the color of choice for quick-resellers that want to clean up the trunk, but don't want to remove everything for a proper, exterior-color paintjob.

There is something suspect about the coloring around the gear-shift pattern on the dash. It looks like it was taped off, which makes me wonder if the dash was painted. If so, that's often a bad thing. Best case scenario is that there was a 5-speed sticker over this pattern that was removed and left residue, but I can't imagine why someone would remove a 5-speed.

Broken speedometer needles are another sign of someone not knowing what they are doing with a 2002. removing and replacing the speedometer isn't difficult and shouldn't cost more that $100 maximum. So, if the seller wasn't willing to invest $100 for something as important as a working speedometer, what else didn't they spend money on? Also, that steering wheel belongs on something else. I'll let other opine on where it belongs, but I think we'd all agree that it's place is not in a 2002, even a customized one.

Anytime I see paint on chrome, I think of two things: What is the paint covering and what is it going to look like when the paint chips or scratches and you see the chrome seat hardware peeking through? Sidenote: Chrome or polished surfaces where generally chosen by manufacturers for surfaces that were naturally going to get scratched, rubbed or abused in someway, yet needed to remain clean-looking. If a customizer was really just going for a certain aesthetic, the proper way to do it is to have the chrome removed, then have the part powder-coated.

Even from here I can see a gap in the windshield lockstrip. If that wasn't replaced, then the seal wasn't removed for the paintjob. Yet another sign that the paint cost $500.

Again, black painted chrome/polished surfaces (vent windows) worried me. Also, adjusting the hood so that the beltline trim isn't that difficult, especially when you're asking $7,000+.

Additionally, the images that you posted (that were sent from Flemings) showed as best a hefty dose of neglect to the underside of the car. The passenger side frame rail looked pretty bad, though the photos weren't exactly high resolution. The cracks in the bushings and various thicknesses of rust denote a general lack of care for the mechanicals in the car.

I'm going to make this point again, because it's important: I, and most people on this forum, don't see the things that I pointed out in this car as unacceptable (well, maybe that steering wheel) for a 2002. Generally, the attitude is, "It's your car, do whatever you want to it." The problem here is that these things aren't generally accepted with a car for which the seller is asking $7,000+. For that much money, you can get a much more complete and better maintained car.

For $7,000, in my opinion, a 2002 should have:

1. An engine that leaks and/or burns only the slightest amount of oil.

2. Paint condition that is in-line with the paint's age (if the paint is new, then it shouldn't have bubbles or scratches. If it's original and/or older, it may be acceptable to have some wear, which is valued by some (including me).

3. Fully functioning interior. All switches, gauges and accessories should be present and working. Carpet should be in good shape.

4. If the paint is new, then the windshield seals and lockstrips should be as well.

5. Minimal rust. With the exception of the passenger frame rail, the rust looked normal, but I would feel better if it had been mitigated.

6. Brakes, steering and suspension that is in a driveable, safe and well maintained condition. They don't need to be upgraded or brand-new, but they should be in better condition than what is seen on this car.

Hope that helps.