Alpina and Borrani (CMR) 13” Steel Rims

[Conserv]

42 minutes ago, JohnP_02 said:

Steve, just saw this R1-440 for sale dated 6/75 and it looks like its quite a bit later than the dates on your data sheet. It is kind of surprising that they would have kept making these until the mid-70’s, but here it is.:

 

Thanks, John!

 

Yes, easily the latest Alpina steelie we’ve come across. Just when I think we’ve captured the full range of production....

 

Much appreciated. Thanks for checking those date stamps! ?

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[skyking96w]

These are the original lug nuts on my '71 Alpina.  They are like the ones in uai's pic.  The car is in the paint shop right now or I would remove one and get a better pic.

[quant]

I just saw this ad on eBay KA: https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/alpina-stahlfelge-6x14-raritaet-07-1969-bmw-nk-cs-bmw-2002/1835620055-223-15340

 

Are these also 'original' Alpina Borrani wheels from a 2002, as they are 14" ?

 

I can't really figure what the 'manufacturer's stamp' says (fifth photo below)

 

Does anybody know what these wheels are, and on which cars these were used ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by quant

[jmr_1602]

Quant. 
 

Those wheels were marketed to NK owners. The mfg stamp is Lemmerz. I can’t say off the top of my head if CMR and Lemmerz are the same wheel manufacturer. Someone smarter than me will chime in I’m sure. 
 

Jason
 

 

[Alpina-A0]

Hi Quant,

as Jason allready said the Wheel from your post is a 14" Alpina "Lochscheibenrad" for the Neue Klasse (four door sedan), produced by Lemmerz.
Ofcourse those wheels could have been driven on the 02 as well, but normally, they had the 13" Alpina "Lochscheibenrad" produced by CMR for Alpina.
Even though the two kind of wheels look quite similar, Lemmerz was German Manufacturer, located in Königswinter and CMR was an Italian manufacturer, located in Milano.
Both prodcued steel wheels called "Lochscheibenräder" for Alpina.
Best
Michael

[zinz]

48 minutes ago, quant said:

I just saw this ad

 

Those are very difficult to find, but, wow.... 580 Euro for one wheel.  

 

Ed

[quant]

Another question - do 'replica' CMR Borrani R1-485 (5.5Jx13) wheels exist ?

 

I recently acquired a spare set of two R1-485 wheels (see orange wheels; photos 1-3 below).

For comparison, I added some photos of my R1-528 (6Jx13, ET17) set below it (photos 4-7).

 

If you look at the orange 5.5J wheels, it shows the type (R1-485) and size (13 x 5 1/2) above and below the centre; however nothing on the sides (at 3 and 9 o'clock).

 

But if the you look at the black 6J wheels, it also shows "CMR" and production date (with "CMR" either in letters before the 12-76, or as logo before the 11/80 - bit difficult to see that last one) and the KBA number 40008 on 3 and 9 o'clock.

 

Furthermore, looking at the side of the rims, the orange 5.5J ones show "13 x 5 1/2 JJ   9  70  C", whereas the black 6J ones show "6J x 13 CMR 11 80".

 

Has anybody seen this before?

• Does anybody know if these are CMR Borrani wheels - if yes, why is the design different?
• Or if they are not CMR Borrani wheels - who produced these and to what extent they differ from the CMR Borrani R1-485 wheels?

 

Interested to learn more about all the variations of the 2002 Borrani wheels

 

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by quant

[Conserv]

19 hours ago, quant said:

Another question - do 'replica' CMR Borrani R1-485 (5.5Jx13) wheels exist ?

 

I recently acquired a spare set of two R1-485 wheels (see orange wheels; photos 1-3 below).

For comparison, I added some photos of an R1-528 (6Jx13, ET17) set I have, below it (photos  4-7).

 

If you look at the orange 5.5J wheels, it shows the type (R1-485) and size (13 x 5 1/2) above and below the centre; however nothing on the sides (at 3 and 9 o'clock).

 

If the you look at the black 6J wheels, it shows CMR before the date (either in letters before the 12-76, or as logo before the 11/80 - bit difficult to see that last one) and it shows the KBA number 40008 opposite.

 

Looking at the side of the rims, the orange 5.5J ones show "13 x 5 1/2 JJ   9  70  C", whereas the black 6J ones show "6J x 13 CMR 11 80".

 

Has anybody seen this before? Are the orange 'R1-485' wheels replica wheels, not made by CMR / Borrani, or was this just a different design from a different production plant / subcontractor?

I’ve seen lots of differences among the identification stampings, but have yet to see a “CMR rim” that I thought was a counterfeit. If you read through all 21(?) pages of this thread, you’ll see both photos and discussions of the varied stamping. To be honest, most CMR rims I see in person are dented, rusted, and over-painted. And I admit that a true “period” counterfeit would be hard to detect. In general, however, the stampings appear to increase and improve over time, with ET’s being added in the mid-1970’s and KBA’s starting to appear in the late 1970’s. The very earliest examples don’t appear to have any stampings on the center disk, only on the outside of the barrels. Much of the increased stamping is a response to German laws or regulations.

 

Perhaps undermining my argument that counterfeits probably don’t exist, I’ll note that weights often vary from rim to rim, not within a large range, but within a small range, a few ounces, for instance, on a rim weighing 16 pounds. I’ve always considered these variations just part of CMR’s “quality control”, or lack thereof! ?

 

If you think about the engine number boss on an ‘02 block — small space, limited data to record — it’s difficult to find two blocks that are stamped in an identical fashion. I believe this reflects BMW’s focus on (a.) getting the data stamped, rather than (b.) providing precisely-uniform stampings. And such, I believe, was also the case with CMR, as well as other manufacturers.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[Alpina-A0]

Those are CMR / Borrani Wheels! Why the orange one do not have the CMR Letters stamped... i don't know, but they seem to be pretty original!
Important: Alpina only sold the ones with the round holes!
The trinagle shaped ones were availble for example throigh GS Tuning or Koepche...

Best
Michael

Edited August 9, 2021 by Alpina-A0

[quant]

Dear Steve and Michael, thanks for your quick feedback.

Edited August 9, 2021 by quant

[quant]

47 minutes ago, Conserv said:

I’ll note that weights often vary from rim to rim, not within a large range, but within a small range, a few ounces, for instance, on a rim weighing 16 pounds.

 

Interesting to read about all those variations. I'll find some time to weigh my various CMR Borrani wheels and post the results here.

[Conserv]

And there’s always the Wheels Database:

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[jazz_and_bimmers]

Hello!

I just purchased some 13x5.5 Alpina CMR steelies for my 2002ti,

I have been informed that I will need to install tubes by the seller.

Can anyone advise me on this, and what the correct tube would be and where I could find them?

 

 

Many thanks,

Michael

[Conserv]

5 hours ago, jazz_and_bimmers said:

Hello!

I just purchased some 13x5.5 Alpina CMR steelies for my 2002ti,

I have been informed that I will need to install tubes by the seller.

Can anyone advise me on this, and what the correct tube would be and where I could find them?

 

 

Many thanks,

Michael

Michael,

First: they’re gorgeous!

 

Was the seller, perhaps, German? If so, since your Alpina steelies are not “double hump” (abbreviated as “H2” on the rim), the German TUV would, indeed, require you to use tubes. Without the double humps, tires are slightly more likely to unseat, or “break their bead” during hard cornering or other extreme conditions. The tube would keep the tire inflated if you unseated the tire under those conditions.

 

In the U.S., however — a.k.a., the land of bald tires and “any-lane-can-be-your-lane”, where road safety is considered “over-rated” — there’s no particular reason that you must use a tube on an Alpina steelie, whereas a Borrani wire wheel needs a tube to avoid leaks. The German TUV is simply safety conscious and conservative. Unless…. unless, of course, you’re already running, or plan to run, a tube-type tire, such as a Michelin XAS, the most common original tire on most U.S.-imported ‘02’s, and probably installed by the factory on most Euro-market ti’s and tii’s. 

 

The XAS, introduced in 1965, was also produced in a tubeless version from ca. 1975 until the end of regular production (1985-ish?). But only the original tube-type version has been produced since that time.

 

Considering that you’re rockin’ a ti — I’m guessing with both Alpina steelies and a 235/5 dogleg — you should seriously consider 165HR13 XAS’s for those steelies. Even when Alpina was modding an ‘02 in these early years (before 1974-ish), they stuck with 165HR13 XAS’s. The first photo below shows a no-expense-spared Alpina-modded 1600-2, in 1967, with the 5 1/2” steelies and XAS’s. The second photo shows a no-expense-spared Alpina-modded 2002ti, in 1969, with Alpina 5 1/2” alloys and XAS’s. The only other tire I would consider for a ti is probably the Pirelli CN36 in 185/70 HR13. I’m not certain, however, when the CN36 was introduced; it might have been 1971 or 1972. I haven’t done the research. Of course, I believe a “period look” is supercritical on a ti, but you might want to consider the source for this sage advice… ?

When you order your XAS’s or CN36’s from Longstone Tyre, they can provide tubes — completely optional for the CN36’s in the U.S.… ?

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[quant]

1 hour ago, Conserv said:

Was the seller, perhaps, German? If so, since your Alpina steelies are not “double hump” (abbreviated as “H2” on the rim),

 

 

I've read about that 'double hump' in relation to the CMR Borrani steelies before, and once saw the attached diagram as an description.

 

But I never really understood what that 'double hump' is all about.

 

Could you provide some more explanation on this?

e.g. questions that I have are:

• What is the reason for the 'double hump' - is it, so you can run with tubeless tyres (as you mentioned above) ?
• To what extent is there a 'genuine risk' of deflation when you run a tubeless tyre on a 'flat hump' Borrani? 
• What alternatives were made to the 'double hump' CMR Borrani wheels - is it the 'flat hump' as indicated in the diagram, or are there (also) others ?
• Could you show some photos of these different types of wheels, which clearly show these differences (double hump vs. other types) ?  As I've never actually seen the difference / the different type of wheels shown side-to-side
• How can you recognise what type of wheel you have - you mentioned "H2" on the rim - where would this be shown? What if you have another type of rim; what does that show?  Do you have some photos of actual rims showing this?
• Why were these different types of rims made - as I assume they will all made by CMR in Italy?
• Was e.g. the double hump wheel produced later (as like an 'upgraded version') then the flat hump wheel, or where they produced in parallel? 

Ok, lots of questions to better understand of the variaties of CMR Borrani wheels out there.

Thanks for your insights.