19 inch rims on a 2002!

[Swiftus]

A 25% sidewall tire might be a little stiff...

But I actually like the look. Those Audi wheels are pretty snazzy looking on a touring. I think if you could find a similar set in a 16 or possibly a 17 then you could achieve the 'same; look and retain some suspension functionality in your tires.

For example, a 225/25 R19 tire rotates 861 times per mile and only has 2.25" of sidewall (Really stiff and little protection for your wheels)

A 225/35 R17 tire rotates 869 times per mile and has 3.1" of sidewall. Only 3/4" of an inch more in sidewall, but it could be a huge help with absorbing some of the road vibration (The tires primary responsibility in a suspension).

A 225/40 R16 tire rotates 874 times per mile and has a 3.5" sidewall. Considering that most folk on this site seem to think that 15s are as large as you should go, I wouldn't shirk that extra inch of wheel for 1/2" of sidewall from the 17s just to please the crowd.

Go big or Go home...

Of course, fitting 225s on a 02 is a whole 'nother can of worms, but flares are gonna help you there... the inner fender up front will make you grind your teeth though...

HTH

Jay

[gretchen72]

WHY would you do that to a Touring!?!?!?!

+1

However, with only 1876 RHD Tourings made, messing up a few RHDs may help the resale on mine!!

Funny... I seriously doubt that my wheel change will help your resale value. Did you know that the wheels easily come off? That's how the men in the shop put the tyres on darling.

[gretchen72]

A 25% sidewall tire might be a little stiff...

But I actually like the look. Those Audi wheels are pretty snazzy looking on a touring. I think if you could find a similar set in a 16 or possibly a 17 then you could achieve the 'same; look and retain some suspension functionality in your tires.

For example, a 225/25 R19 tire rotates 861 times per mile and only has 2.25" of sidewall (Really stiff and little protection for your wheels)

A 225/35 R17 tire rotates 869 times per mile and has 3.1" of sidewall. Only 3/4" of an inch more in sidewall, but it could be a huge help with absorbing some of the road vibration (The tires primary responsibility in a suspension).

A 225/40 R16 tire rotates 874 times per mile and has a 3.5" sidewall. Considering that most folk on this site seem to think that 15s are as large as you should go, I wouldn't shirk that extra inch of wheel for 1/2" of sidewall from the 17s just to please the crowd.

Go big or Go home...

Of course, fitting 225s on a 02 is a whole 'nother can of worms, but flares are gonna help you there... the inner fender up front will make you grind your teeth though...

HTH

Jay

Wow! Actually a constructive post!

Yes, 235/35's on 19's is stupid for this car for many reasons, but mainly because they don't fit, even with turbo flares.

I'm not a virgin to 02's, my first car was one and I've had 2 others since, so I know how tiny the front wheel wells are. Rear isn't so much of a problem when you chop the guards out for the flares, so 235 probably isn't out of the question, but the front will scrub with anything bigger than a 205, which is more than adequate.

Rims on the other hand are the real pain in the ass as the bolt pattern is limiting and the offset is just plain retarded, which is why so many guys go for minilites and Alpina's and e30 rims... Custom rims are the only option if you want to retain the standard mounting and go for something really unique. The other option is a hub conversion.

I haven't decided on hubs or custom rims yet, but as rims are pretty much a consumable, the hub conversion would seem to be the smarter option.

[staunch2002]

After converting my '02 to nissan hubs ans suspension, it has opened the door to numerous wheel offsets and sizes. 225/40 17's will still max me out, even with flares or a wide bodykit.

[Swiftus]

I am a fan of the Team Dynamics 1.2 series of wheels. They come in the required bolt pattern, wheel size, and offset and are pretty cheap to boot!

http://www.teamdynamicsracing.com/pro-race/Pro-race12.htm

And with them in size 15 on my Opel:

[gretchen72]

After converting my '02 to nissan hubs ans suspension, it has opened the door to numerous wheel offsets and sizes. 225/40 17's will still max me out, even with flares or a wide bodykit.

Now there's a novel idea! The purists must be having seizures right now...

[staunch2002]

Yeah they have already started emailing questions.

So just to be clear... my track only 02 is not like yours, and that's why i have Nissan hubs, brakes, steering rack, etc etc..

[rctid]

If you want your touring to look badass...

more here

[nbcbird]

I think 22s will look much better than 19s...

+1--EXACTLY!, why bother with the tires.

[gretchen72]

If you want your touring to look badass...

more here

PHAT!!! and a 5 bolt hub too, by the looks...

[Kpeters]

Honestly when I opened up the thread I was already biased towards thinking it was going to be horrible but it's not bad. Not my first choice though.

I would gladly take those old rims and hubcaps from you though

[staunch2002]

Love that you also noticed those 5 stud hubs. The 25 badge on the rear must be a subtle hint at what may be hiding under the bonnet.

[Guest Anonymous]

Why not 20's or 22's. If you are going to ruin the touring, I suggest you do it completely. You are completely destroying the character, handling characteristics, and nature of your 2002. Just say no.

[auggiemize]

If your friends laughed, get new friends.

[Swiftus]

You are completely destroying the character, handling characteristics, and nature of your 2002. Just say no.

I call bull on this one. I do vehicle dynamics for an FSAE team and, to a point, changing your tire sidewall size can be easily compensated for in spring and damper rate choices...

Using intuition I would say that 18s, or +5 is probably that point on an 02. So while technically the OP would be 'ruining' his handling characteristics with the wheels he mocked up, the same could be said for anyone who puts fat 205s on their 02. Its a similar degree of cocking about with the suspension.

What about big brakes on an 02? Do they ruin the car's handling as well? They certainly add a bit of unsprung mass to the equation. And they provide more braking force than the originals that can lead to faster lockups... But what if the big brakes were added to a car that also now has wider wheels? A higher ultimate traction force coupled with a higher potential brake force alleviates the lockup problem and possibly keeps the character of the car...

02s were designed with very narrow and tall-sidewall tires. The kinds of tires that are only found on snow rally race cars today. These tires let the car wander around the road when one starts really pushing the car. It can lean, wiggle, and produce massive wheel slip angles all because of the tire. This can be exhilarating to the novice driver because the higher wheels slip angles mean that the traction breaking force or 'grip slip cliff' as I like to say, comes slower and perceptibly more controlled. To an experienced driver, the tire deflection and sensation of 'floating' can be very frustrating when attempting to accurately position the car on the driving surface. What if BMW was compensating their suspension and handling characteristics based on what tires were available at the time.

Modern BMWs come with between a 35%-50% sidewalled tire. The reason for this is simple. All of the vehicle dynamics research that has been done in the last 40 years has found that for a typical user on a typical road, any more sidewall than 60% simply adds a layer of unpredictability that the vehicle dynamicists have difficulty accounting for when designing a suspension. A 'high performance' car will have a smaller sidewall because it leads to higher ultimate grip levels to a point. 35% is around that point.

Sure, a smaller sidewall can lead to a harsher ride! That's obvious and is highly un-patentable. But the reason your probably have the perception that big wheels "ruin the handling characteristics" of the car is probably because rarely are big wheels the only thing changed in that car's suspension. They are typically accompanied by urethane bushings, stiffer springs, higher rate dampers, larger anti-roll bars, bigger brake packages, etc... Most of these things are 'high performance' parts that sacrifice the comfort of the ride in order to achieve a higher-ultimate grip(traction) level for the car.

If you want to experiment and see if your assertion has significant merit, find a bone stock, well-maintained 2002.

Now find a set of 5.5" wide 15,16,17 inch wheels and put the same 165 tire but with the appropriate sidewall on them.

Now blindfold yourself and have a friend equip one of the options without you knowing which one.

Now go for a drive.

Come home, have them switch the wheels and go again for a drive.

Feel any different?

Possibly, but I doubt in any poorer way unless you live on a gravel road and were hooning the car.

I can provide many books on the subject if you would like further reading. The math is relatively simple, most of which is just trig. You will need very basic calculus eventually, but most is trig so anyone who went through the US math system in the last 25 years without having to repeat their math classes should be able to follow.

HTH,

Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Jay Swift

Media Director and Vehicle Dynamics

OSU Team Member

Global Formula Racing