engine and drivetrain 2002 Cabriolet Project Ignition Problems?

[Hans]

Looking at the pic of the dist. without the rotor, that looks like things are lined up - dist. body in correct position, points have just opened, notch on rotor has gone past the notch on the dist body, #1 wire looks like it would sit over the rotor. But if at that point, #1 cyl is 180 deg away from firing position (ie valves are open), then I believe you have to turn motor over one revolution to get to the TDC firing position, and then pull out dist enough to turn shaft, rotate rotor 180 deg, then push back in so it lines up again. You need to compensate for the gears meshing, but the idea is to recreate the photo. That should work.

[Jamie Francis]

Thanks Hans,

The line on the flywheel was definatly the OT line, while turning the rear wheel a bit at a time i watched the Z mark with the ball go past and just after it came the OT line,

Is it normal that when the OT line is in the viewing hole, the number 2 and the line on the cam pully are not at the top?

Like in this picture

 

If I understand to set the timing static, you turn the engine over until the flywheel OT line is just before the flat side of the viewing hole AND the cam lobes on cyl #1 are pointed down so both valves are shut

 

then with the distributor removed align the rotor with the notch on the housing (where #1 cable sits) then back it off about 1/4 turn so when you insert it and the gears mesh it twists back to line up with the notch and the #1 cable.

from that point put valve cover back on and put a spare  sparkplug into #1 cable and earth it, back the dizzy of a touch, turn the ignition on and slowly rotate dizzy until plug fires.

tighten bolt on dizzy.

 

then start and use a timing light to fine tune timing to the ball on the flywheel.

 

I will give it another go tomorrow.

 

thanks again

James

 

[Hans]

The line on the cam flange should be at the top as in the photo when engine is at TDC for #1. At that point, #2 will be at the bottom of its stroke. If in that photo, you are not at TDC, then an adjustment is required before turning the engine over any more. Was the head off? Or chain removed?

 

Your timing steps are correct. You can use the method of turning the dizzy - if I'm not mistaken you would turn the body opposite to the normal direction of rotation of the rotor - normally clockwise, he said trying to remember. Some go the other way. If you have help, use the rear wheel turning method - back up about 1/8 crank turn - the points need to be closed -  then go forward.

[2002Targa]

I'm only mentioning this because I've done it myself, but are all the plug wires hooked up right?  Another option, it could be the rotor itself.  My first 02 was doing the same thing yours is doing.  I thought there was no way it could be the rotor, it's just a straight run piece of metal, but evidently it had a hairline crack in the metal somewhere.  You could put a meter on it and have zero resistance, then tap it on the fender a couple times and it would be fully open.  It looks like one of the funky rev-limiting ones which I've always thrown away for the straight across ones.

 

TK

[Jamie Francis]

Well another go and sadly still a no go.

I was VERY carefull this time I checked and re checked everything I got the timing mark on the fly wheel and the cam flange were both perfect and I got the dizzy to spark at that position.

I think unfortunatly as much as I am stubborn and don't want to I might have to get a mechanic here to go over it

thanks for all your help guys

I am tempted to go through the same process with one of the other non running 02's here, using the same dizzy and see if I can get it running

I am finding this process very interesting

this one might get the treatment next.

thanks again

James

[FunkyLaneO]

If it backfired out the carb then that means it was firing while the intake valve was open which means that you are 180 out. rather than take out and reposition the distributor, you can test this by swapping the wires on the cap with the wire directly across from it (essentially skip 2 spaces clockwise) I made a little graphic for you.  test that for a couple cranks and see if it starts.

 

 

If it starts you can go about repositioning the distributer so it fires cyl 1 on the notch or you can just leave it if it doesn't bother you.

[Hans]

OK, so you're getting a spark as #1 gets to TDC? If so, might be good idea to check condition and gap on plugs. Then it should fire. You appear to have the plug wires in the right order; make sure they pushed on tight. Then its over to the fuel side. If it hasn't run in a long time, try spraying a bit of carb cleaner or "QuikStart" down the carb throats. If you're sure the float bowl is try, you can try pulling the fuel line from the out side of the fuel pump, put a small funnel in the hose, hold it above the carb and pour one or two ounces of gas in. Don't get carried away - the bowl doesn't hold much.

 

Make sure you have a fully charged battery.

[tomscat1]

OK, so you're getting a spark as #1 gets to TDC? If so, might be good idea to check condition and gap on plugs. Then it should fire. You appear to have the plug wires in the right order; make sure they pushed on tight. Then its over to the fuel side. If it hasn't run in a long time, try spraying a bit of carb cleaner or "QuikStart" down the carb throats. If you're sure the float bowl is try, you can try pulling the fuel line from the out side of the fuel pump, put a small funnel in the hose, hold it above the carb and pour one or two ounces of gas in. Don't get carried away - the bowl doesn't hold much.

 

Make sure you have a fully charged battery.

... and a fire extinguisher.  Be very careful working with gasoline.

 

Remember:  a gallon of gas will propel you about 20 miles horizontally....... and about 1 mile vertically!   Stay safe!  

[Hans]

good advice. I always keep the extinguisher handy when doing a "first-fire " on a motor. We're talking a shot glass at most. But I'd just shoot a little Quikstart in there and see if it fires.

[Jamie Francis]

another day another no go hahaha.

checked the plug gaps they were .035, so I made them .045

tried to start and no go.

swapped the plugs on the dizzy 180 dig,

no go, so I put them back

double checked timing again using my lovely assistant turning the back wheel, with a spare spare plug in #1 and it fires as the OT line passes on the flywheel

Tried ether based engine start down the carb - no go

 

what is the best thing to do with choke and accelerator with all this attempted starting?

I have tried lots of variations but mainly choke on and foot flat to the floor because it appears to be flooding if I opern up the throttle and look down carb it is building up pools of fuel in the manifold quite quickly.

infact multiple times over the last few days I have removed the carb and soaked it up with a rag

I tried disconnecting the fuel line going into the fuel pump after soaking up the fuel in the manifold and still no go.

 

By this stage I was fed up so I did both outer cv joints on a diahatsu mira I'm selling to fund this project

I needed to have at least 1 win for the day, easy job, feeling better

 

Back to the BMW

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FunkyLaneO]

if you are flooding the engine you will want the choke wide open and the throttle wide open.  if you haven't flooded it yet then choke wide open and just a little throttle should do.

['76mintgrün'02]

Have you checked the float level?

[Hans]

Once you've got the timing set, don't mess with it. Hopefully its back where #1 plug fires when #1 cyl is TDC in firing position. Next, plugs should be 0.28 to .030 to start with stock ignition. You really should replace that carb to manifold gasket. Way too much gas going in the motor. Maybe its the accumulation of trying to start it and pumping the throttle too much. Or it may be the float needle is stuck open. Normally, on cold start, you pump the pedal once - that releases the choke plate, which should then be closed, foot off the gas and turn it over. Once it fires, use gas to keep it going. So for now, clean up the gas, re-gap plugs, put on a fresh gasket if you have one, have your lovely assistant turn it over with gas pedal down maybe 1/2", squirt starting fluid down carb.