engine and drivetrain Carb Question - Weber 32/36

[Hans]

To me, plugs look OK. Caramel color is good. Clean them up with emery paper, re-gap and re-install. I suspect the oil on the threads is coming from the outside. AS for points, the idea is to get the fiber block on the high spot of the cam -as shown in your pic - and set gap at 0.016 with feeler gauge. You can use a dwell meter to get a more precise measure, but feeler gauge is close enough. Put a screw driver in the  notch on the points base plate and the two bumps on the dist plate to move gap back and forth. Points can be re-cycled, but you have to look for pits and lumps on the point faces. The faces need to be flat.

[Chamonix72]

Are those platinum plugs? For whatever reason, the 02s don't tend to like them. I like NGK myself. The BPR5ES is pretty easy to find since they are fairly common for motorcycles too. If you have the stock style wires you'll just have to unscrew the metal tip at the end.

[peterschop]

The plugs look like they are burning at the right heat range but it looks like a lot of oily crud is building up outside of the electrode. Maybe because of engine venting into the air cleaner. I would ditch the Bosch platinum plugs and go with the NGK. Platinum plugs work better in a high energy system. I stopped using Bosch plugs after I had an electrode fall out and go through my engine.

 

+1 on Hans post on the points. Your picture shows the fiber block on the high point of cam, where your points should be open. The new points look like they have a shorter fiber block but as long as they can open the points to .016, you should be good. Any time you adjust your points, you will have to check your timing. That is where the timing light comes in. It is all explained in the Haynes book. When ever you adjust the points, put a single drop of oil on the felt pad on the top of the shaft. It will go down into the distributor and lube the mechanical advance springs.

[Buckeye]

You may want to buy cam lube and apply small amount to the point fiber block before installing the new point. Ensure you remove that old grease from distributor shaft first.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/maa-26015?seid=srese1&gclid=CKXP29iBiLwCFeYWMgodxSoAAQ

[Hans]

I tried platinum years ago but had a similar experience. Thought it was just my car. Back to regular NGK and all is well.

[davej]

thanks for the plug info, i'll pick up some of those NGK's and see how they do. 

 

pulled the points out, here's the faces, i'm guessing they fall into the "severely pitted" category? 

 

not to shift gears entirely on all the help you guys have given me so far, but I was digging through the boxes of parts that came with the car and found a Haynes manual for the car, and a pertronix ignition. the install directions seemed pretty easy, and it looks like it got lots of good reviews on the forum, so i put it in last night, seemed to line up alright. 

 

 

 

Figure if i can't get the electronic ignition to work, i can always fall back on the new points i have. 

Reading up on how to set the timing now, anyone know of a good video that might walk me through the timing process?

 

Hopefully i'll have this thing running again soon (and better) thanks to everyone's help!

[davej]

well i didn't see any of the vacuum capsules they talked about on page 69, so i started looking up my part number, 0-231-188-002 appears this may not be the stock one from my 76. also, after more looking around it seems my petronix is the wrong one, it was an 1847V that i put in, but on the forums it should be a 2842? ( that dizzy part number isn't even listed in their petronix database)

 

Think i'll need to go back to napa and get different points also since they just looked up the ones they gave me based on the year/model? 

[Hans]

That photo would make a nice contribution to the topic of "badly pitted points" on Wikipedia. Much better choice with Pertronix. But before you start car, make sure your wring is correct, and that you have the appropriate coil. Plenty of info on FAQ under Pertronix install; if memory serves, Blue coil is good. Better check.

Same with timing. Do a search - there was something a few weeks ago, but I forget the title. Anyone remember that lengthy one that started from scratch? Haynes tells you how to static setting with engine off to get in the ball park.

[peterschop]

Yeah, those points are pitted. Back in the day when I had points in my year around daily driver, I would have cleaned them up with a point file, time and go. Now, I would replace them. Pertronix is a better way to go since once they are in and running, they will not wear as points do. One less thing to worry about. There are a couple different Pertronix ignitions for different distributors because of the layout inside the cap. It looks to me like every thing fits and you have the right set. I would go with what you put in there. As far as the coil, I would leave what you have in the car already. If your car worked before with your coil and points, it should also work with the electronic ignition. Do one thing at a time. As far as the "Blue" coil, it is to be used without a resistor. You have a '76 and I believe they have a built in resistor wire which is not compatible with the blue coil. Since there is no vacuum capsule, your distributor is a mechanical advance only. One less thing to worry about. It is probably out of a TII. Some people put the in as an upgrade. And if you want to keep the points for a back up, I think you bought the right set.

[Hans]

I'm not sure its that simple with the coil. As I understand it, based on FAQ posts and Pertronix site, the coil has to be a certain resistance, which may or may not require an external resistor. I have  Pertronix, car had a Blue coil and I determined a the time that I was OK. Other people have apparently fried their units (so to speak) allegedly because of coil mismatch, or because the wires were reversed. I would suggest that davej do a bit of research and satisfy himself that all is correct. Perhaps as you say, it will work as is. Blue coil should be good if he has that. Somebody had posted a paragraph explaining coil differences.

There are several part numbers as mentioned above - the Pertronix online catalogue for 2002 is not to be trusted. I think I ended up with 1847 for mechanical dizzy. You can phone them with your dizzy number to get correct application. But yes, that looks to be in order.

[peterschop]

By all means, research is good but I think he already has the right coil.

 

The Pertronix ignitor, same as points wants to see 3.0 to 3.5 ohms from the coil. Lower resistance will fry the igniter or burn points if use them because of higher voltage. If your resistance is too high, the spark will be weak. The blue coil measures about 3.0 ohms and does not need an external resistor. The red and black coils are about half of that resistance and need the external resistor. The early cars had a resistor you could see mounted by the coil unless they had a blue coil. The later cars had built into the wiring an inline resistance wire to serve that function. The wire on my '74 measured 1.8 ohms and I use a black coil that measures 1.2 ohms. Add the two for a total of 3.0 ohms. If I put in a blue coil, I would have a resistance of 4.8 which would produce a weak spark.

 

You can see from the picture Dave posted of his coil, it is not a blue coil. His car is a '76 so it should have the built in resistor wire. If you look in the article section there is a section that discusses this called Ignition Coil Myths Busted. . Here's the link

 

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/_/technical-articles/electrical-and-ignition/ignition-coil-myths-busted-r52

 

 

[Hans]

thanks for tracking down the article. In Dave's case, I would want to make sure the resister wire is still in place.

[davej]

sorry to have fallen off the face of the earth, here's a summary of events from the last couple of weeks. 

I met a local guy with a shop that used to race 02's back in the 70's, he said if i could get it to him, it shouldn't be a big deal to make right. I wasn't able to ever get the car started with the electronic ignition in, but too cheap to pay for towing. put the new points i had back in, and the car started right up. (might be i don't have the right ohms off the coil like peterschop mentioned?) but was hoping Jim could help me test that when i got there. 

 

I was able to take it easy and drove the car to his shop, but we had a wicked bout of cold and some snow (at least by VA's standards) and Jim wasn't able to get caught up on his other work and look at it during the week, then he was going away for vacation. decided to bring it back home so it wouldn't have to live outside for 2 more weeks. Never made it home, about 1/2 way back it stopped running and wouldn't start again. towed it to another shop that i was only a mile or so from which had helped me on my S4 once upon a time. 

 

Had to wait for a condenser to be ordered in, napa didn't have one when i bought the points, and i didn't realize it was kind of a necessary piece to replace at the same time. (probably would have avoided a lot of these issues had I had ordered it then) 

they put the condenser in and the car starts fine, but they also found a crack in one of the insulators on the plug wire, causing it to arc out. 

 

long story short, back in business after a new condenser and plug wires. Shop timed it by ear, which got me home w/o stalling. I bough a cheapo harbor freight timing light with advance degrees for $25, so now it's off to search how to use it, and get it timed. 

 

Shop also said the carb is really due for a refresh (or replace), as well as my coolant hoses, he noted they were really soft and said will happen as they break down from the inside. 

 

Oh, and during all of this shop-hopping, my smarter half voiced her opinion that it's not the wisest idea for me to try and rely on a car this old for daily transportation. we bought a little honda fit as a commuter car, which frees me up to learn/work on the '02 with out worrying about how i'm going to get to work the next day. =)  

 

I'll need to learn how to use a mulitmeter and check the coil. does anyone have a photo of what the resistor wire looks like? I tried tracing the wire back from the coil but didn't notice anything inline that might be a resistor, although i'm not sure i'd know what it was if i was staring at it. 

 

thanks again for all the comments and help, and sorry for the delay in updates.

[GreenSwede]

The resistor wire on my car was the last 50-80 centimeters, can´t really remember, of the wire to the coil. Underneath the black(?) cover there was a thinner wire, not copper, that went back and forth and back again, so to speak. I didn´t realize it was there until I opened up the shell.

Actually, I noticed this as I reinstalled the wires after getting the engine back in and mixed up a few wires, having a small bonfire under the hood..=)

 

A google picture search for "bmw2002faq.com resistor wire" might do the trick.

 

Since then I run, as ordered by a Bosch-tech to do when running Pertronix, a Bosch red coil that came with a separate resistor. As I got it, Blue is just fine if you make sure the in-wire resistor is gone, since the Blue has a built in resistor. 

 

Hope you understand what I meant, can't find all the proper english terms sometimes.

 

The Honda-as-daily seems as a better idea, at least until you´ve gone through the most important bits. Walloth & Nesch has a complete kit with all the coolant hoses, if you don´t find it around town. 
And, search for "set timing" here and I think you´ll find all you will need to know. (But remember to change the search to "google"..=))

 

Good luck!

Edited February 11, 2014 by GreenSwede

[davej]

Makes sense Ola, thanks!

 

(once i figured out how many inches 50-80cm was