tires and wheels Rear Wheel Bearing Center Spacer Toast, Right?

[GreenSwede]

So, after at least thinking I heard a sound from the rear (and as I've been having some undiagnosed vibrations for a while) I wiggled the wheels the other day, and left rear had quite a bit of play. A lot. I ordered bearings and seals.

 

Tonight I thought I'd see how stuck the castle nut was (after reading some post mentioning bars and such..). But after getting the pin out, which was quite a pain, I finally got the ends of it enough to make the nut pass. And the nut came off with a one hand twist with a 14" handle? I didn't even have the parking brake engaged.

 

I thought "Hm..", and tried tightening it, just for fun. Just a bit, with the same handle and one hand. And the play seemed gone. 

 

What I'm thinking ( I didn't have time to proceed tonight) is that since the nut wasn't tight, and as it applies pressure to the center rings (collars? Not sure which term is right) of the bearings the center spacer is toast? If just the rolling part of the bearings were shot I wouldn't be able to get rid of the play just by tightening the nut (as up  front), right? Actually, I wouldn't be able to tighten the nut.

 

My thought is that the center "parts" are supposed to be pulled together, and a play in the bearings would be there no matter what if the center total length is right.

If the center spacer is toast, I can press the center rings (collars) towards each other, stretching the bearings and making them seem tight and without play?

 

That got long, I should just tear the whole thing apart and have a look. But even if I stop wrenching, my mind wonders.. I'm tired, but I think I'll order a center spacer as well. And cancel the first track day of the year.

[KFunk]

So, after at least thinking I heard a sound from the rear (and as I've been having some undiagnosed vibrations for a while) I wiggled the wheels the other day, and left rear had quite a bit of play. A lot. I ordered bearings and seals.

 

Tonight I thought I'd see how stuck the castle nut was (after reading some post mentioning bars and such..). But after getting the pin out, which was quite a pain, I finally got the ends of it enough to make the nut pass. And the nut came off with a one hand twist with a 14" handle? I didn't even have the parking brake engaged.

 

I thought "Hm..", and tried tightening it, just for fun. Just a bit, with the same handle and one hand. And the play seemed gone. 

 

What I'm thinking ( I didn't have time to proceed tonight) is that since the nut wasn't tight, and as it applies pressure to the center rings (collars? Not sure which term is right) of the bearings the center spacer is toast? If just the rolling part of the bearings were shot I wouldn't be able to get rid of the play just by tightening the nut (as up  front), right? Actually, I wouldn't be able to tighten the nut.

 

My thought is that the center "parts" are supposed to be pulled together, and a play in the bearings would be there no matter what if the center total length is right.

If the center spacer is toast, I can press the center rings (collars) towards each other, stretching the bearings and making them seem tight and without play?

 

That got long, I should just tear the whole thing apart and have a look. But even if I stop wrenching, my mind wonders.. I'm tired, but I think I'll order a center spacer as well. And cancel the first track day of the year.

 

This happened to me, almost exactly.  The wheel wiggled, and the axle nut spun spun off just by hand.  You should be able to find my thread.

 

The consensus was that the stub axle/hub splines were shot and allowed the wiggle, which is a common occurrence.  I found a used hub/stub axle that fit tightly together via the forum, and replaced it, along with wheel bearings.  Center spacer was fine, as far as I know. 

 

I suspect if you just tightened the hell out of the axle nut, it would fit tightly back together and last a while longer.  I didn't take that chance, though.

[GreenSwede]

Ah! So the wiggle is on the outer side of the bearing, then. Got it. And sounds logical.

 

I actually got a complete rear axle, with drums and all. At least I think I do, I took a -75 apart last year and saved what could be saved. I'll go through the pile tomorrow. Hopefully finding one that's ok.

 

Thanks!

 

And I think I found it:

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/100994-i-removed-rear-axle-nut-and-flange-by-hand-huh/

Edited April 23, 2014 by GreenSwede

[FB73tii]

The consensus was that the stub axle/hub splines were shot and allowed the wiggle, which is a common occurrence.....

I suspect if you just tightened the hell out of the axle nut, it would fit tightly back together and last a while longer.  I didn't take that chance, though.

As the stub axle begins to fail it elongates a bit, which creates the loose nut. While I have seen splines strip on their own, I suspect the loose nut speeds the process. You are right to replace the stub axle and not tighten it more. Once it begins to let go, tightening it back up stretches it even more until it snaps off and you lose a wheel. It is amazing how fast they can let go, I had swapped my wheels for a track event, and just 2 days later went to rotate them due to tire wear. The right rear was all wobbly and I immediately know it was the axle letting go. When I torqued the wheels the day before it was fine. --Fred

Edited April 23, 2014 by FB73tii

[jireland2002]

Have the stub axle magnafluxed.  It is probably cracked.  Also have the replacement checked as well.

Jeff

[GreenSwede]

Have the stub axle magnafluxed.  It is probably cracked.  Also have the replacement checked as well.

Jeff

 

I'm not sure I know any magnafluxer around..=) But will check.

 

I was thinking that Loctite cylindrical fastener would be a good idea when the time comes to reinstall. Or some other brand or version, like on prop shafts. Yes? 

[M3M3]

locktite not needed and won't help an axle failing.  proper tq'ing the nut and pinning it keeps everything in place.

 

the center sleeves don't fail.

[Hans]

If you use a matched set of hub shaft and carrier, use the spacer/shim that came with it. If you put one hub in another carrier, you may have to perform the measurement procedure shown in the manual to determine the  appropriate spacer thickness.

[GreenSwede]

If you use a matched set of hub shaft and carrier, use the spacer/shim that came with it. If you put one hub in another carrier, you may have to perform the measurement procedure shown in the manual to determine the  appropriate spacer thickness.

 

Will have that in mind, thanks! I got two rear arms out of the pile today. And bent my handle trying to get one of the nuts off.. Heat!

[GreenSwede]

Heated. I need bigger, less girly, tools.

[TobyB]

 

the center sleeves don't fail.

No.  But they DO get worn shorter when a hub nut comes loose. They're a lot softer than the inner ball races.

And then they put stress on the new bearings,

which fail prematurely.

 

I've been lucky, and haven't had a stubshaft failure.  I HAVE seen several nuts loosen, and they then do a lot of

damage in a hurry.  When they loosen, even if you catch them early and avoid spline damage,

you have to re- check the dimensions, as things wear out- of- tolerance in a hurry.

 

t

[M3M3]

If you use a matched set of hub shaft and carrier, use the spacer/shim that came with it. If you put one hub in another carrier, you may have to perform the measurement procedure shown in the manual to determine the appropriate spacer thickness.

The shims are specific to the trailing arm, not the hub. You can swap hubs and axles all day without worrying about the Shims.

[GreenSwede]

No.  But they DO get worn shorter when a hub nut comes loose. They're a lot softer than the inner ball races.

And then they put stress on the new bearings,

which fail prematurely.

 

I've been lucky, and haven't had a stubshaft failure.  I HAVE seen several nuts loosen, and they then do a lot of

damage in a hurry.  When they loosen, even if you catch them early and avoid spline damage,

you have to re- check the dimensions, as things wear out- of- tolerance in a hurry.

 

t

 

I had two trailing arms laying around. It was on one of those I just broke the handle. The right one. On the left one of those two, the nut is really loose. I can wiggle it with a finger tip, and I haven't even removed the pin. 

 

I believe an old mechanic once told me "BMW's loose their left rear wheels. It's always the left." What's your experiences, folks?

 

The nut on the car, wasn't that loose. I did have to use a tool, at least. 

 

After reading your posts (and thank you all, by the way!) I'm thinking that I'll remove the one on the car, bolt stub and hub together to look for play, and if play I'll keep working the tool-breaking trailing arm (right hand side) to see if that's useable.

 

And whatever I'll use, I'll measure.

[eurotrash]

Warning, the bearing may come out with the axle..  which also brings with it the seal. They can be quite stubborn, if original.

 

Have parts on hand.

 

 

[GreenSwede]

Warning, the bearing may come out with the axle..  which also brings with it the seal. They can be quite stubborn, if original.

 

Have parts on hand.

 

Done. Bought for both sides. I've started doing that when something fails.. If it is within a reasonable price range. NLA is just around the corner for some bits.