other 1974 2002Tii Sighting From A While Back .....

[OriginalOwner]

just found these pictures from what I think is a year or so ago.  I was at 2002AD in Pomona, this '74tii was on the curb ..... didn't think to look at the VIN number, this is the same paint color as mine ......

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Carl

Edited April 28, 2014 by OriginalOwner

[otisdog]

Carl, notice the seats...same as mine.

[Conserv]

Carl, notice the seats...same as mine.

Those are '75-'76 model year seats. Anything built September '74 or later came with them. And it also has a set of Campagnolo Bertone's (a.k.a., Ragno's).

Great color! Beautiful car.

Steve

Edited April 28, 2014 by Conserv

[OriginalOwner]

Interesting.  My '74tii, assembled in July 1974, has the same seats, or at least what looks like the same seats.  Same color, appearance, design, headrests .....

 

Cheers,

 

Carl

[Conserv]

Interesting. My '74tii, assembled in July 1974, has the same seats, or at least what looks like the same seats. Same color, appearance, design, headrests .....

Cheers,

Carl

Well, Carl, we may then need to make some "adjustments" in the cut-off from '74 to '75-'76 style seats! So I'm assuming, based on your username, your car has never been owned by anyone but you. Correct? And you've never redone the interior but for horsehair pads and minor repairs. Correct? And is your back seat, which I will presume is also original to your car, of the '74 style (first photo below) or of the '75-'76 style (second photo)?

There is a "window" of time when at least one factory source clearly documents that '75-'76 style front seats -- maybe just a prototype -- existed prior to the release of the '75 model year cars in September '75. The photos used in the '75-'76 model year brochures were taken no later than August '74, as evidenced by the publication date ("8/74 ") on the earliest versions of these brochures. Interestingly, they show a beige '75-'76 front seat (third photo) but a beige '74 rear seat (first photo) on adjacent pages. Were these front and rear seats in the same prototype car? I have no idea. But they're both beige. I've always assumed BMW worked up the new-style '75-'76 front seats first as more development was probably required for the front seats: they have measurably more "bucket" to them than the flatter '74 seats. But if the publication date was August '74, how much earlier might the photos have been taken? Again, I don't know.

So did BMW start production of the '75-'76 style seats by July '74, or earlier?

Who else has a one-owner late '74 model with '75-'76 seats? If you've got a candidate, please provide your VIN and production date. At the same time, who has a one-owner late '74 model with '74 style seats? I suppose we need to ask both questions!

Thanks and regards,

Steve

Edited April 29, 2014 by Conserv

[OriginalOwner]

Steve,

 

yep, one owner ....... my VIN is 2782426 ..... realOEM says I am 7-1974.  And I've got an email from Andreas Harz that says my VIN equates to July 18, 1974 for assembly.

 

My passenger seat and rear seat + rear seat back are 100% from the factory, never re-done, no horsehair replacements, no minor repairs, and beige in color.

 

That top pic back seat photo you posted looks "just like mine,"  beige color.

 

My front seats:  I don't think they ever had that much "bucket" to 'em.

 

SO, with that said, I'll take some pictures and post 'em ......  I am currently out of town, won't be back to the BMW until Sunday at the earliest.

 

Cheers,

 

Carl

[tii74]

Strange.

Production date on mine is also July '74.  And I have the '74 "only" headrests.

VIN 2782334

Edited April 29, 2014 by tii74

[Conserv]

Steve,

 

yep, one owner ....... my VIN is 2782426 ..... realOEM says I am 7-1974.  And I've got an email from Andreas Harz that says my VIN equates to July 18, 1974 for assembly.

 

My passenger seat and rear seat + rear seat back are 100% from the factory, never re-done, no horsehair replacements, no minor repairs, and beige in color.

 

That top pic back seat photo you posted looks "just like mine,"  beige color.

 

My front seats:  I don't think they ever had that much "bucket" to 'em.

 

SO, with that said, I'll take some pictures and post 'em ......  I am currently out of town, won't be back to the BMW until Sunday at the earliest.

 

Cheers,

 

Carl

Thanks, Carl!

Very interesting (in a nerdy '02 way, of course)! I'll wait until I see the photos. But this has me wondering if late '74s -- or at least some late '74s -- were produced with '74 style rear seats and '75-'76 style front seats. Or are there some "transitional" front seats that share '74 and '75-'76 characteristics? Don't worry: this burning mystery will keep until you have an opportunity to post photos!

Safe travels and best regards,

Steve

[Mike Self]

My suspicion--borne out by other seeming parts anomalies on 2002s...BMW was using up "old" parts before changing over to a newer style part.  And I'll bet with the seats they didn't run out of different colors simultaneously, so cars with one color interior have the old style seats and a higher VIN than another interior color with the new style seats.  

 

I've seen '72 cars with the older "tobacco" brown interior--and chrome seat back adjusters, both of which were supposed to be superceded by the saddle interiors and black-painted adjusters for 1972.  They did the same thing with paint.  Nevada is not supposed to be a 1972 color, but I've seen an early tii painted that color (with the early seat upholstery to match).   

 

Drives us authenticity nuts, well...nuts!  That's why it's important to document original cars while they're still original...

 

mike

[Conserv]

My suspicion--borne out by other seeming parts anomalies on 2002s...BMW was using up "old" parts before changing over to a newer style part. And I'll bet with the seats they didn't run out of different colors simultaneously, so cars with one color interior have the old style seats and a higher VIN than another interior color with the new style seats.

I've seen '72 cars with the older "tobacco" brown interior--and chrome seat back adjusters, both of which were supposed to be superceded by the saddle interiors and black-painted adjusters for 1972. They did the same thing with paint. Nevada is not supposed to be a 1972 color, but I've seen an early tii painted that color (with the early seat upholstery to match).

Drives us authenticity nuts, well...nuts! That's why it's important to document original cars while they're still original...

mike

Thank you, Mike,

I suspect that your explanation may be exactly where the answer lies! I'm hoping that we can, nonetheless, collect some information to support (or deny) this; I've personally never before considered the possibility of a "transitional" period between "pure '74" and "pure '75" interiors -- despite the odd juxtaposition of '74 rear and '75-'76 front seats in those '75-'76 brochures!

Best regards,

Steve

Edited April 29, 2014 by Conserv

[OriginalOwner]

If one is a production engineer, what mike says makes perfect economic sense:  use up old stock, you're not making money with that stuff collecting dust in your warehouse.  Let it collect dust in the customer's garage.

 

Nerdy is good !!!!!

 

And OEM out-the-factory-door authenticity is life !!!!

 

Cheers,

 

Carl

[OriginalOwner]

Conserv,

 

here finally are the long-promised pictures of the passenger seat and rear seat in my '74tii (VIN 2782426, July 1974) ...... both are 100% from-the-factory, no mods or changes.  Note both of the butt-seats:  all the horsehair is long gone, those are the springs you're looking at, pressing against the original covering.

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Carl

Edited May 19, 2014 by OriginalOwner

[Conserv]

Conserv,

here finally are the long-promised pictures of the passenger seat and rear seat in my '74tii (VIN 2782426, July 1974) ...... both are 100% from-the-factory, no mods or changes. Note both of the butt-seats: all the horsehair is long gone, those are the springs you're looking at, pressing against the original covering.

Cheers,

Carl

Thank you for following up, Carl, and posting these photos.

Your seats, front and rear, are the classic '74 model year seats (fitted, generally, to square taillight cars manufactured prior to September '74). What distinguishes a '74 seat from '75-'75 model year seats?

1. The front seat headrest supports are approximately 16" on center on a '74 seat versus approximately 6" on center on a '75-'76 seat. The '75-'76 seats eliminated the headrest "outriggers" that one finds on all pre-'75-'76 headrests.

2. A '74 front seat has 7 "ribs" across the central seating areas whereas a '75-'76 seat has 6 ribs across the seating area.

3. But more obviously, on a '74 model year seat, those ribs on the backrest stop well short of the seat top and yield to a flat panel of vinyl. On a '75-'76 model year seat, the ribs on the backrest not only extend to the top of the backrest, they "roll over" the top of the seat.

4. The rear seats of both styles have 8 ribs across each of two central seating areas, but the '74 seat continues the pattern, on the backrest, of the ribs stopping short of the top of the seat, with a flat panel of vinyl above the ribs. The ribs on the '75-'76 rear seats continue all the way up the backrest and roll over the top of the seat.

5. Compared to a '74 model year seat, a '75-'76 model year seat has more "bucket" to it: seat cushion and backrest bolsters wrap around the occupant more and the leading edge of a '75-'76 seat is raised more than a '74 seat.

The tii in the original post, although a '74, has '75-'76 front seats: the 6 ribs continue up and over the top of the seat; the headrest has no outriggers (it's the narrow post variety). I was thinking that, with your car, we had happened across -- okay, perhaps hoping -- a documented example of '75-'76 model year seats in a '74 car. But we don't have that, at least not yet!

Below, top left is a black '74 front seat, top right is a tan '75-'76 seat, below that is a tan '74 rear seat and, at the bottom, a dark blue '75-'76 rear seat, backrest only.

Best regards,

Steve

Edited May 20, 2014 by Conserv

[02Les]

Those are '75-'76 model year seats. Anything built September '74 or later came with them. And it also has a set of Campagnolo Bertone's (a.k.a., Ragno's).

Great color! Beautiful car.

Steve

That 2002AD pic dates back to Jun '09 when the car was for sale. 2002AD stated it was a Euro tii..........so it could be a '75, eventhough 2002AD noted it as a '74.

Allow me to add confusion. The unknown VIN would help.

[Conserv]

That 2002AD pic dates back to Jun '09 when the car was for sale. 2002AD stated it was a Euro tii..........so it could be a '75, eventhough 2002AD noted it as a '74.

Allow me to add confusion. The unknown VIN would help.

Thanks, Les,

Confusion is OK, especially as a result of additional possibilities! And, hey, perhaps it was a '74-built '75 (i.e., post-July '74, pre-January '75) and 2002AD didn't know how to "classify" it, so threw it in the '74 bucket, making it more "comfortable" to buyers accustomed to the U.S. model offerings.

Regards,

Steve

Edited May 21, 2014 by Conserv