engine and drivetrain Side Draft Intake Manifold Upgrade

[Cartorious]

Hello, I am new to this forum, and have a few questions.

 

First a little background-

I just turned 16 and wanted a classic head-turner as my first car, and decided upon a BMW 2002 or a Datsun 510. I purchased a clean 1975 BMW 2002 for $4500 2 months ago and want to increase the horsepower.

 

I was in central Oregon this weekend and visited my grandparents' friend who owned two 2002's in show quality.

 

He was showing me the engine and said by installing dual Dell'Orto side draft intakes and a special camshaft, and new headers (not sure what those are), and a new inter-cooler he was able to increase the horsepower from 106 to around 180. This one was a 1976.

 

I've got about $1000 at my disposal with a steady job so money is not an issue.

 

Mods I've done so far include new spark-plug wires and electronic ignition, and plan on putting better performance shocks/springs in order to lower the car a bit and increase handling as well.

 

Again, I just need to know how much a Side-Draft Intake Manifold would set me back, and if I needed to order anything else in addition to it in order for it to work (like a cam for example).

 

-I can attach pictures if needed, and will answer any questions as quickly as I can... Let me help you help me.

 

            -Thanks, Carter

[AceAndrew]

Hi Carter,

 

Congrats on the 2002, certainly would be a fun high school car (and you can root out any wussy prospective girlfriends!).

 

As for the intake manifold, it is but one part in a conversion to run twin sidedraft carberaters.  If you image search "Weber dcoe M10" then you can find a lot of good starting information (including manifold, of which there are/were many many options).  Understand that if you are on a bit more of a budget (if your looking to purchase everything new, a well rounded setup will be a bit north of $1500 [beware of sidedraft "kits" being advertised as you will usually be looking at a number of additional bits and pieces])  then you may want to consider a 38/38 downdraft as it will offer the same streetable power as sidedrafts while being a bit more budget and tuner friendly.

 

Here's a quick google link for "weber dcoe M10"

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=weber+dcoe+m10&espv=2&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=HTC6U8WOHsLjoAS16IKgAg&ved=0CBwQsAQ&biw=1164&bih=614

 

I strongly encourage you to pick up a copy of the "02 Restoration Guide" and read it cover to cover.  Also become familiar with the search function as there is already a wealth of information answering nearly any question you can think of here on the faq.

 

Yes a camshaft (something like a 292 degree cam) would be nice, but certainly do some homework on what would make a decent street hotrod (using that search function).

 

EDIT: Also an intercooler is commonly used in a turbo system to cool pressurized air before going into the intake.  People do not commonly mix turbo chargers and carburetors (unless they are a masochist).  He may have been referring to a larger radiator or perhaps a different intake setup.

 

And we'd love to see pictures of your pet project!  Feel free to start a blog detailing your progress.

Edited July 7, 2014 by AceAndrew

[Cyclone101]

Well, If I can give some advice.

 

The last thing you should upgrade is the engine. Before you even go there, make sure your brakes are in a good condition, and it would also be wise to replace the suspension bushes. If your cooling isn't in good condition, you will definitely have problems after modifications, so make sure that is right before hand.

 

On to the engine... Adding a cam and some sidedrafts to a NEW engine will not give you 180bhp, you would be lucky to see 120bhp.

To get to higher numbers you will need more compression, but that requires an engine rebuild. 150bhp is about the limit for a mild mannered street engine.

 

Turbo charging a stock but good M10 would result in 180+ bhp, much further than that and you will need new drive train to handle the power.

[AceAndrew]

In regards to the HP number refutes. Not sure I'd advocate beginning light to something that could potentially sew discourse in a relationship between a car loving grandfather and grandson. Regardless if you're right or not.

Edited July 7, 2014 by AceAndrew

[Cartorious]

Thanks so much, I was kinda hoping it would end up a chick magnet haha. There is a picture I just posted, mine on the right (I was driving around and spotted another one so stopped for a picture).                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Before engine upgrades im thinking of taking off the front bumper, is that difficult? (difficult meaning it would take my dad [experienced mechanic] and I 2+ hours) 

Edited July 7, 2014 by Cartorious

[Cyclone101]

In regards to the HP number refutes. Not sure I'd advocate beginning light to something that could potentially sew discourse in a relationship between a car loving grandfather and grandson. Regardless if you're right or not.

Definitely not my intention, but on the other hand, I don't believe in avoiding truth just because it might offend someone.

[Cartorious]

In regards to the HP number refutes. Not sure I'd advocate beginning light to something that could potentially sew discourse in a relationship between a car loving grandfather and grandson. Regardless if you're right or not.

Like I said, it was my grandfather's friend's 2002. My grandpa used to own a 1929 Ford Model A but with his knowledge of cars wouldn't even be able to change the oil properly.

[simonr]

I would suggest to enjoy the car for awhile. I just went from a very nice set up 38-38 which was a major improvement over the 32-36 to dual Weber side drafts. It has turned into a much bigger project than I wanted. My car has been a driveway ornament for almost a month waiting for TEP to replace a bad bypass pipe for me. Its fun to work on these cars but they are much more fun to drive!!!

[Harv]

Having been a 16 year old once, I'd leave that big ugly bumper on there for now. If you make it a year without damaging it you could treat yourself to shortening the mounts.

Brakes are first. Even if you think they work ok now. Find local 02ers for reference. Suspension is next. Then the motor. Trust us, we've all been there.

John

[eurotrash]

A tail pipe forward, ground up inspection/refreshing is a good idea.  If you bought a well sorted 2002, you may just need to confirm that everything is in good working order..  then let the fun begin. 

 

(All links are live..)

 

After you know it steers and stops well, look into a Weber 38/38 carburetor (hog out your manifold for the larger carb), to keep it simple.  You will feel a huuge difference from what you have now, but not have the 'in-over-your-head' feeling.. After you recover from that, swap in an exhaust header of some sort..  and a better ignition system.  If, and when, the power and simplicity of that setup wears off, then maybe consider the side drafts and a cam.  But by then, I would find a spare head, have it rebuilt, add the cam and carbs, then swap it onto the car. 

 

..And that my friends is how a true fanboy would/should jump on the opportunity to promote his favorite 2002 shop.  Jeff, Jeremy, Andrew.. you're welcome.   

[JackF]

Welcome aboard! I have reached the point that, while I am absolutely interested in how fast it will go, I am more interested in how fast it will stop. I like Harv's suggestions. 100 hp doesn't seem like much but remember this car is only 2100 lbs. As Colin Chapman said, "If you want to go fast, add lightness". Get the brakes and suspension right and get your 100 hp on the track and I think you will develop an appreciation of the car. THEN, do the drivetrain mods.

 

My recommendation is that you carefully analyze your budget against the various mods. These are great cars, but you can get upside down in a hurry, and that definitely takes the fun out of it. $tep by $tep and keep it in control. 

[FB73tii]

Carter,

 

Welcome and congratulations on your new 2002--looks nice. To get more power from an engine you need to understand it as a system. Here are a few links to get you started, and there are further links within these that lead to good content. While the first topic is "engine rebuilding", we get into a lot on the performance side and you will see all the questions that you need to answer before investing your hard-earned money.

Engine Rebuild
http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/151699-engine-rebuild/

Creating Low End Power In A 2002?
http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/149077-creating-low-end-power-in-a-2002/

"quicker" Acceleration
http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/148358-quicker-acceleration/

Bang For Your Buck Go Faster Mods
http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/147599-bang-for-your-buck-go-faster-mods/

How Much Hp From My Bmw 2002?
http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/146686-how-much-hp-from-my-bmw-2002/

I will echo some of what others have said above--we all want more power, but the place to start with any car is safety (first and foremost--seat belts good, seat mounts solid, brakes good, etc). The tried and true is "make it stop (brakes), make it turn (suspension), and last make it go (higher diff ratio, lower weight, more power)." If you want to be fast from a stoplight you need more power. If you want to be fast in the curves (closed-circuit for any real speed) then you need to learn car control and how to carry momentum. I.e., spend your money on high-performance driving schools, not power upgrades. This has the added benefit of making you safer on the road--increased situational awareness, refined psycho-motor skills, ability to remain calm in an emergency situation and more.
 

Do your research and we will be happy to respond to your questions. Please do look into a driving class such as Tire Rack Street Survival if you have not already. This is a one-day class for about $75 that gives you 3 hours of-in car with an instructor on a skid pad and other exercises to learn car control. There is one coming up in Portland, Oregon on October 12.

 

Tire Rack Street Survival
http://streetsurvival.org
 

Very worthwhile, I think something like this should be required of ALL drivers before they get (and renew) their licenses.

 

Best, Fred

Edited July 7, 2014 by FB73tii

[jrkoupe]

some good info here....

gl w/ your journey....

I say do brakes and chassis first..I did that at 20 yo w/ my 02....and I drove the 100 hp all day long..lol

that being said..there is a dual Weber set up fs on boston CL....the link may be posted here somewhere.

[Mike Self]

What a great first car--not a lotta hp to get a new driver in trouble, but good handling out of the box, with the potential for great improvement to handling without spending a lot of $$$.

 

To echo what's already been said...horsepower ain't everything.  One of the 2002's charms is its handling, not necessarily its speed.  Get the suspension up to snuff--a squarelight car (and 73's) have road springs that are a full inch taller than earlier cars--to meet Federal bumper height standards--so even fitting stock springs from an earlier car will lower your center of gravity a bit--and fitting aftermarket springs like Eichbach or H&R will lower it further.  Ditto with shocks, suspension bushings etc.  

 

If that were my $1000, here's what I'd do:  first go through the brakes.   Get good quality pads and replace other parts as necessary.  Stopping fast is much more important that going fast!

 

Then remove the front suspension spacers if they're still in place, then fit aftermarket springs, Bilstein HD shocks, and new suspension bushings (stock rubber, not urethane) if the current ones are original and/or worn.  Larger sway bars, 22mm front and 19mm rear with urethane bushings (won't make the ride harsher).  If you're patient, a lot of this stuff can be found on the FAQ "parts for sale" section; good prices on new parts through BluntTech and other suppliers who advertise on the board.

 

Can't tell what your car has in the wheel/tire department, but I can tell you that good 13" tires are very difficult to find, and you can't fit anything wider than a 185 tire on the OEM 5" rims.  14" tires are a little easier to find, and the inexpensive way is to find wheels from an E30 three series (correct bolt pattern and offset).  Or go to 15" wheels--much wider selection of tires, but some may require rolling the fender lips for them to fit.  

 

Then enjoy driving the car.  Also sign up for a Street Survival course--it'll teach you how your car handles in a safe situation, complete with wet skid pads etc.  Great fun and a must for a new driver.  Wish they had been around when I was 16.  

 

If some of this sounds like Greek to you, not to worry--lotsa information and discussion on this board that will explain it all--and save you from some expensive mistakes.  And don't be shy about asking questions; the FAQ has a huge amount of expertise that folks are happy to share with you.  

 

Cheers

mike

 

PS--my first car was a 28hp Renault 4CV--yours is a lot more fun! 

Edited July 7, 2014 by mike

[Cartorious]

Another Update:

 

So reading all the information it is clear I need to "fix" or ensure that braking works flawlessly

-Knowing this I just remembered one problem about the car that I will have to solve first...

 

The last owner of the car forgot to set the E-brake and the car rolled backwards into a tree, nothing was damaged just the compression shocks on the back bumper on the right side were pushed in (which my dad and I just yanked out via rope tied to a hitch on our other car)

 

We are not sure, but rolling into a tree may have caused another problem that the previous owner neglected to mention (or didn't even notice). The first day I owned the car my dad and I (I couldn't drive stick dependably for a couple days haha) took the car into les schwab for re-alignment and new 70k tires (still on 13' rims). Almost wanted to upgrade the rims to newer-nicer ones (they had been upgraded around the time the car came out to non-steel, lighter rims) until the maintenance people came up to me and said:

"The camber on the rear left wheel is real messed up and would need a complete rebuild for it to be aligned properly, so don't brake to hard until you get that fixed"

 

Not knowing what camber was, my dad explained

We then took the car down fairly steep hill at about 65 miles per hour, and pressed the brakes (not to hard at first because we didn't know how bad it was)

-Long story short it pulls to the left pretty bad when you slam on the brakes anywhere 40+ mph

 

We did order brake pads and we will take the wheels off to do that as soon as the white rim-paint ships from online, so we can let two things happen at once to save time.

 

Realizing this I should probably get that fixed before anything

 

P.S. I was trying to start a blog (or at least add cars to my garage) on this website but I can't figure out how to do it. I'd love to detail my progress and upload a few pictures but I can't seem to figure out how to do it

 

ALSO* Thanks everyone for your support! you can't imagine how thankful I am being new to car ownership haha

Edited July 7, 2014 by Cartorious