racing and safety The Grail....

[73touring]

http://www.coys.co.uk/auction.php?itemID=5071&auctionID=47

[M3M3]

the HOLY grail.....

 

220k?  wow!  highest price ever for a 2002?

 

site is unfortunately lacking in pictures....none of the M12!!!

[73touring]

Yes, the money shot is the M12. Ive been luck enough to be up close to this last year. It is something else.  The wheel base is different to a standard 02 if memory serves me correctly, possibly the track. Rack and pinion steering, Dry sump. The engine is braced to the shell, so part of the structure like lotus race cars, all as per the factory works cars.

 

I robbed this from T Curley but as you can see, it has made grown men fall flat on their face!

Edited August 2, 2014 by 73touring

[markmac]

Here is the money shot of the M12/7 engine on a stand in Lester Owen's facebook page.  This motor had a special butterfly injection system in lieu of a slide throttle, which was needed for the lower end torque that Rallye cars have to have.  The motor was still mounted straight up and down so rack-and-pinion steering was necessary since exhaust and intake are opposite a standard M10 motor.  Super cool for sure.

 

By the way, the price estimate is in Euro's so the low end would be $241k the high $294k

 

www.alpinabmw2002.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

[M3M3]

beyond cool.....gonna buy some lottery tickets this week......

Edited August 2, 2014 by mlytle

[jrkoupe]

fantastic...omg....so very cool to see/read this

[markmac]

That car is a rare bird for sure.  With the length of those stacks the engine would have needed to have been dropped way down low in the engine bay, otherwise the stacks would stick out of the hood.  In 1973 for some period of time Motorsport was using carburetted Schnitzer motors in their Werks rally cars which made about 225bhp, this motor with the butterfly injection I think was in the 240-250bhp range.....they needed torque rather than high horsepower.  What is interesting about the image of this motor is the toothed pulley mounted outside the head intake side.  No idea what that is for, doesn't appear as though there are any other gears/pulleys for it to connect to???  Definitely a thing of beauty.

 

www.alpinabmw2002.com

[markmac]

Rallye car thread from my blog, car mentioned here is in a post back in 2010, pre-restoration apparently.  

 

http://www.alpinabmw2002.com/search/label/BMW%202002%20-%20Rallye

[73touring]

As far as I can gather. The output is 285 bhp at 10.5k rpm detuned from the race cars 325 odd bhp. Id say the pulley outside the intake side ( had to think there for a while [emoji10]) might be to time the intake cam?

[visionaut]

http://www.coys.co.uk/auction.php?itemID=5071&auctionID=47

Amazing car, amazing history -- thanks for sharing this.  How much are kidneys (not the grill kind) going for nowadays?

 

Tom

Edited August 2, 2014 by visionaut

[visionaut]

As far as I can gather. The output is 285 bhp at 10.5k rpm detuned from the race cars 325 odd bhp. Id say the pulley outside the intake side ( had to think there for a while [emoji10]) might be to time the intake cam?

So you can just drop-in the 'other' cam for 325?  (couldn't help myself thinking this) 

[73touring]

Id recon timing adjustment only. In saying that changing cams on the s14 is alot quicker then an m10 I imagine the m12 is simular

[markmac]

Never heard of a normally aspirated M12 making that much power.....more in the 295-310 range.  if it were possible the cams would be crazy and you would have to take it to +10,000 to make that much power and of course any motor living at that RPM has a very short life.

Regarding the engine above, I am sure LH Owen could say exactly how much power it makes.  From Jeremy Walton (Unbeatable BmW)...." we ran out of money, but we did have a modified GmbH Formula 2 engine, given about 240 horsepower, and we did do the 1000 lakes in Finland with that.....we had a good car with that independent rear suspension and our engine..." (Martin Braungart).  I would imaging that there are few places on a rallye course that would enable you to spin an engine up to 10,000 RPM.

 

www.alpinabmw2002.com

[73touring]

Id cotact Lester, he 'might have' some 'very recent' data. It might surprise you.

[markmac]

Why don't you do that and update all of us....Thanks a bunch.

 

No worries, I need to ask him a question about some things on my car, so I will ask then.

 

 

www.alpinabmw2002.com