engine and drivetrain VIN Mismatch Concern

[TobyB]

In Washington state, if the VIN is registered to someone else, you need their help to get title to that vin.

The only people who can 'take' a car without the title are tow truck drivers (??!??!??) and even then,

there's a long (7 year?) wait.  Yes, I read a LOT of RCW to dig this up...  Otherwise, there is no mechanism

to 'disposssess' someone of a car- even if they're dead (which was my problem).  Two different subagents agreed...

 

Now, if WA has no RECORD of the vin, there are ways to get it 'attached' to the car.  Usually a State Patrol

inspection and a bit of paperwork does it.  But the subagent will know about this.

 

As to stamping and welding, that's hard to do in a 'non- shady' fashion.

BMW, like all manufacturers, had their own stamps made for VIN stamping,

and duplicating those is harder than ordering up a set of number stamps...

 

hth

 

t

[Dave3x72tii]

did you check the 2002 register?

In Il, they only keep inactive records back 10 years, but if someone shows up with a valid paper title, they have rights over subsequent titles. We have to buy a bond to cover what the value of the car might have been in order to get a new title issued. A new replacement inner fender would have had no numbers on it back in the day....  

[bento]

did you check the 2002 register?

In Il, they only keep inactive records back 10 years, but if someone shows up with a valid paper title, they have rights over subsequent titles. We have to buy a bond to cover what the value of the car might have been in order to get a new title issued. A new replacement inner fender would have had no numbers on it back in the day....  

 

 

I haven't checked there yet and it appears to be down right now.

 

My research so far indicates that California and Washington both require a release from the registered owner on record with the state in order to issue a duplicate title. Probably to avoid the issue you're describing.

[ndog]

 it isnt a round tail car with the turn signal stalk on the wrong side, represent it as what u think it is at time of sale

[bento]

it isnt a round tail car with the turn signal stalk on the wrong side, represent it as what u think it is at time of sale

Agreed. If reselling as a cheap driver, few will probably care too much.

I was planning to drop a bunch of money into it over the next year for floor replacement, 5 speed, paint & body, maybe a performance engine overhaul, etc. Not really a cheap driver anymore and would likely sell in a price range that would come with different expectations.

So a change of plans is in order. It's very close to being a reliable, fun driver. An oil leak or two, and a heater blower are the main issues. I'll probably just do the last few things to get it there, enjoy driving it for a while and then sell it (with full disclosure) or do the shell swap.

I spoke to my insurance company and they felt 3 out of 4 Vin tags matching the title was good enough for them. They just asked for the other Vin so they had it on record.

[Gordon]

My tii doesn't have a motor with a matching VIN. My former tii was a Frankenstein, definitely a 10 footer. Within ten feet, you would notice the mismatched body panels, rust, and cracked bondo. I moved all the parts from my Frankenstein tii into a clean tii shell. Am I concerned that it does not have a motor with a VIN that doesn't match the body?  Not at all. . The E21 5 speed, LSD, Recarro seats, etc.. are not original but that doesn't bother me in the least. In my book, the upgrades added value to the car. Bottom line, don't sweat the small stuff but I would be concerned if your car had a salvage title. 

 

G-Man

Edited January 6, 2015 by Gordon

[bento]

My tii doesn't have a motor with a matching VIN. My former tii was a Frankenstein, definitely a 10 footer. Within ten feet, you would notice the mismatched body panels, rust, and cracked bondo. I moved all the parts from my Frankenstein tii into a clean tii shell. Am I concerned that it does not have a motor with a VIN that doesn't match the body?  Not at all. . The E21 5 speed, LSD, Recarro seats, etc.. are not original but that doesn't bother me in the least. In my book, the upgrades added value to the car. Bottom line, don't sweat the small stuff but I would be concerned if your car had a salvage title. 

 

G-Man

I'm not concerned withe the fact that this is a non-numbers matching car.

What concerns me is that the title and registration I have prove I own an engine block, a door, and a steering column cover.

In my mind, the chassis is the critical match to the title. I haven't verified that's the legal point of view as well, but when everything else can be unbolted in minutes, it just makes sense.

I have no idea who the registered owner of the rest of the car might be and it's looking like claiming ownership of the chassis requires whomever the registered owner might be to get off their couch and go to the DMV, sign, and then then notarize, a lost title affidavit, if they're still alive. If not, then their next of kin has to prove who they are and do the same. Not exactly on my top 10 of fun ways to spend a Saturday and I doubt it would be to many as a favor to a complete stranger.

I'm pretty annoyed with myself for not doing a more thorough job of vetting this car out before buying.

[Conserv]

I'm not concerned withe the fact that this is a non-numbers matching car.

What concerns me is that the title and registration I have prove I own an engine block, a door, and a steering column cover.

In my mind, the chassis is the critical match to the title. I haven't verified that's the legal point of view as well, but when everything else can be unbolted in minutes, it just makes sense.

I have no idea who the registered owner of the rest of the car might be and it's looking like claiming ownership of the chassis requires whomever the registered owner might be to get off their couch and go to the DMV, sign, and then then notarize, a lost title affidavit, if they're still alive. If not, then their next of kin has to prove who they are and do the same. Not exactly on my top 10 of fun ways to spend a Saturday and I doubt it would be to many as a favor to a complete stranger.

I'm pretty annoyed with myself for not doing a more thorough job of vetting this car out before buying.

Nicely summarized! You never mentioned your car having a metal riveted-on VIN plate on the right-side inner fender -- not far from the VIN stamped into the chassis. Either (a.) that metal riveted-on plate was removed, or (b.) you have a '76 model year car that falls into one of the groups manufactured without a metal VIN plate -- my '76 (2742541) is an example of a car in this latter category. We got a tire pressure sticker where the riveted-on plate normally attached!

As I've said previously, in post #5 of the following:

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/159617-vin-on-passenger-side-inner-fender/?hl=%2Bvin+%2Bchassis#entry1009056

the chassis stamp is the "biggie" because it is most resistant to tampering.

Best of luck with your new project of clarifying your car's registration (obviously one you never anticipated, but much of what old car owners do is equally un-anticipated)!

Steve

Edited January 6, 2015 by Conserv

[bento]

Nicely summarized! You never mentioned your car having a metal riveted-on VIN plate on the right-side inner fender -- not far from the VIN stamped into the chassis. Either (a.) that metal riveted-on plate was removed, or (b.) you have a '76 model year car that falls into one of the groups manufactured without a metal VIN plate -- my '76 (2742541) is an example of a car in this latter category. We got a tire pressure sticker where the riveted-on plate normally attached!

As I've said previously, in post #5 of the following:http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/159617-vin-on-passenger-side-inner-fender/?hl=%2Bvin+%2Bchassis#entry1009056

the chassis stamp is the "biggie" because it is most resistant to tampering.

Best of luck with your new project of clarifying your car's registration (obviously one you never anticipated, but much of what old car owners do is equally un-anticipated)!

Steve

My car is a 1974. Would this VIN plate be located just behind the strut bearing? If so, there's a pair of holes in the inner fender close to 3 inches apart. So I guess that was removed.

[Conserv]

My car is a 1974. Would this VIN plate be located just behind the strut bearing? If so, there's a pair of holes in the inner fender close to 3 inches apart. So I guess that was removed.

Yep: just aft of the upper strut bearing. You can, of course, get a replacement VIN plate and rivet it on -- reputable firms might ask for a copy of your title or registration, which would be easy since the car sounds like it's titled and registered -- but that wouldn't solve your chassis VIN issue. It might distract from it, however!

Regards,

Steve

Edited January 7, 2015 by Conserv

[bento]

I heard back from BMW this morning. The other VIN on my car left the factory wearing Chamonix paint. Explains the white behind the dash and under most paint chips.

I've decided to enjoy the car for a while and attempt some repairs I had planned to farm out. The floors are rusty and need replacing, and there's some rust under the passenger quarter window along the trim strip. Good learning opportunities!

Eventually, I'll either find a different shell or complete car but no reason not to enjoy this one in the meantime.

I think I might try some driver education events with the CCA as well.

[Conserv]

Thanks for circling back!

Regards,

Steve

[02Les]

I heard back from BMW this morning. The other VIN on my car left the factory wearing Chamonix paint. Explains the white behind the dash and under most paint chips.

I've decided to enjoy the car for a while and attempt some repairs I had planned to farm out. The floors are rusty and need replacing, and there's some rust under the passenger quarter window along the trim strip. Good learning opportunities!

Eventually, I'll either find a different shell or complete car but no reason not to enjoy this one in the meantime.

I think I might try some driver education events with the CCA as well.

I have quite an extensive VIN spreadsheet of '02s that I have compiled over the past decade or more.

If you would like to divulge the VINs in questions I can search. You can private message me if you don't want to make the VINs public.

[bento]

I have quite an extensive VIN spreadsheet of '02s that I have compiled over the past decade or more.

If you would like to divulge the VINs in questions I can search. You can private message me if you don't want to make the VINs public.

Thanks for the offer. I believe the car has been in this configuration for greater than a decade but it would be great to see if you have any details.

I'll PM VIN numbers to you tonight.

Thanks for the offer.

[bento]

Looks like a royal pain but I found a thread on a motorcycle forum that pointed me to the process for obtaining title to the VIN I uncovered.

http://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=308-56A-210

Three year process. I'm confident the VIN has never been registered in Washington so I'm going to give it a shot.