engine and drivetrain How to remove frozen brake lines, what I learned

[peterschop]

I knew I needed new brake hoses when I tried to bleed my brakes and could not get any fluid to come out of the wheel cylinders because of the 40 year old swollen rubber lines. I knew my front hoses were replaced about 20 years ago because of the 9/94 date on them so I decided to replaced them for good measure.

I started with the front drivers side. After soaking the fittings with PB Blaster for a couple of weeks, I tried to remove the front hoses. The nuts on the line would not turn. I tried cleaning the outside of the lines, I tried heat, nothing seemed to work. I ended up rounding over the nuts with my flare nut wrench and had to cut them off with a Dremel, ruining the brake lines. Not fun but I was able to put new cunifer hard lines and braided hoses on the drivers side.

On to the passengers side. I really didn't want to have to cut the nuts off and replace the line that ran from the hose, along the firewall to the MC with the engine in the car. There had to be a better way. I remembered an article I had read about penetrating oil comparisons. PB Blaster, Liquid Wrench and Kroil were all good but a 50/50 mixture of ATF and acetone was much better. So I mixed some up and put that on everyday for about a week with a syringe and tube.


Trying to find a better way, I read online that the nut on the hard line is locking the hard line in place and the trick is to hold the nut still and turn the hose instead. I had to find a way to hold the nut without destroying it. Then I found a pair of small 4LW vise-grips specifically made to hold hex nuts. One jaw has a V that fits on two flats of the nut and the other jaw holds the opposing third flat. I was able to get a very good grip on the nut.

I found the vise-grip on Amazon and they are made for hex nuts 1/4 to 9/16.
http://www.amazon.com/Vise-Grip-Adjustable-Locking-Wrench-Cutters/dp/B0076ITU64/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1425148634&sr=8-1&keywords=VISE-GRIP+4lw#productDetails

Holding the vice-grip stationary, I had to exert extreme force to the 14mm wrench on the hose. With a loud snap. it broke loose with out damaging the line, nut or hose. I was then able to do the same for the other three nuts and remove the hoses.


New stainless steel braided hoses


The bleed nipple on top of the right caliper was also frozen and had been rounded in an effort to open it. A six point socket was not going to work. I needed to use a different vice-grip with teeth to lock down on the bleeder. I did not want to crush the bleeder and break it off so I put a 1/8" drill bit in the bleeder for strength.


With the bit out and my eye protection on and a fire extinguisher near by, I heated the bleeder red hot. Propane was not hot enough so I switched to Mapp gas which got the bleeder nice and red. BTW, I put my hand on the caliper and it was barely hot.


I tapped the bleeder with a hammer and then quenched it with a wet rag. I dropped the bit back in and then was able to unscrew it with the vice-grips.



Replaced with a new nipple, job done.



When I did the back hoses I soaked them with PB Blaster for about a week. I unbolted the center brackets for the sway bar and let it hang for room to turn the wrench. Once the 14mm wrench is on the hose, there is no room to turn it so I had to turn the nut on the line. For the other end of the hose, I put the 14mm wrench inside the trailing arm on the hose and then loosened the nut. Tight working space but I did not need to cut the hose to remove. I was able to remove the rear hoses by using my flare nut wrench. I think the fact they had 40 years of oily grime protecting them, they did not fuse together. 



The beauty of the small 4LW vice-grips is that it has no teeth to mar the nut. The flat jaws hold three opposing flats of the nut putting equal pressure inward and will not deform the nut. Here is a picture holding an M6 nut that takes a 10mm wrench.



But the real trick to removing the nut is to hold it stationary with the hard line and turn the hose to break it loose. Once loose, I was able to used a flare wrench to remove the nut.

 

This post has been promoted to an article Edited March 18, 2015 by peterschop

[jgerock]

Good stuff!  Glad you were able to get the front brake lines fixed.  Are the back hoses just as old?

[Beach_Bum]

Nice work! I tried to swap my lines for stainless last Summer and finally gave up after stripping all of the nuts. Still have the SS lines on the bench, so maybe I'll order those vice grips and give it another go.

[M3M3]

You need to get a set of flare nut wrenches. ....

Edited March 1, 2015 by mlytle

[peterschop]

I have flare nut wrenches. The nuts were so tight, they would slip in the flare wrench and round over. With the vice-grip I was able to clamp it on the nut so it wouldn't slip. 

[gaius]

i use vise grips to break it free, then flaring wrench. standard 8" vise grip, preferably with fine teeth. make sure it is tight, but not tight enough to deform nut (they are softish) i also, have had them strip using a flaring wrench. of corse if you just break them lose every 10 or 12 years this probably wouldn't be an issue. 

[JohnS]

Thanks for the advice. I had the same problem where even when using the correct flare nut wrenches, it still wanted to round off the nut. I just placed an order for one of those 4LW vice-grips. Thanks,

John

[73tiiguy]

You need to get a set of flare nut wrenches. ....

 

I agree, but the most commonly available flare nut wrenches are cheap and they flex too much.  I have a set of gear wrench polished flex head wrenches that work well.. But yah, good old Vice grips usually can save the day!

[RAS-2002]

To Peterschop: Thanks for the heads-up; I, too, just placed an order for one of those Vise-Grip 4LW vice-grips.

Found one on ebay for $13.50, including shipping. From tools-plus-outlet.

Look like the cat's meow; I can use this for numerous applications.

I still can't believe all the great info I find on FAQ.

You guys (and gals) really rock!

Thanks,

-Bob

[bruno615]

I agree, but the most commonly available flare nut wrenches are cheap and they flex too much.  I have a set of gear wrench polished flex head wrenches that work well.. But yah, good old Vice grips usually can save the day!

 

 

Vice grip the flare wrench on both sides.  It will keep the flare wrench from flexing and protect the nut.

Edited March 2, 2015 by bruno615

[cda951]

Flare nut wrenches are one type of tool where you need to spend the bucks on Snap-On or something similar.

 

Craftsman, et al are actually quite good for most wrenches and sockets for the weekend wrencher, but their flare nut wrenches WILL flex and round off fittings.

 

I work on a lot of old Porsches and BMWs with rusted and seized hydraulic line fittings and haven't met too many that couldn't be handled by a combination of penetrating oil and Snap-On flare nut wrenches . . . . though I am in SoCal and not the rust belt.

 

The specialized Vise-Grips are a good tip, however. Good work on getting the job done!

[RAS-2002]

peterschop,

Was it not for the 4LW ViseGrip you recommended above, I doubt I could have removed my frozen rear lines from the wheel cylinder. Worked like a charm.

Many thanks!

-Bob (love this forum!!!)

[JohnS]

I ordered one of the recommended 4LW vice grips.  It's a cute little bugger.  I didn't realize how small it is, but that makes sense.  Worked like a champ.  I have a Hazet flare nut wrench which I think is a very good one and the 4LW worked better.  Thanks again for the tip,

John

[steve k.]

@@peterschop,I merged the three posts together. Please, edit them and arrange in any way you like and i will turn it into an article

 

steve k.

[peterschop]

Steve, I made a few changes. If it's good with you, it's good with me.