engine and drivetrain She's at it again...fuel issue

[darrinos]

You know...I love this little car...but it's always given me fits when it comes to fuel. I'll save everyone all of the painful past stories and stick to the present. It's got the Weber 32/36 carb and really been running quite well lately. But always when I'm out of town, that's when I start to have trouble. I noticed last week that after I'd start the car, it would usually just flat die within 1 minute of starting it. Upon restarting it, we were fine and wouldn't have any trouble until the next restart.

 

Then it started to die now and then after it had been running a while. Then it got to where it would sputter a little bit. On the way home last night on a 150mi trip, while driving down the interstate, it had trouble running. I saw the tach going crazy because it would just die and then start right back up most times. But then a few times, I had to just let it die, turn the key off and start it up again. Always starts back up instantly.

 

I had just replaced fuel filters earlier in the day and they were B-A-D...one of them even had melted a bit on one end. I was sure that was my problem, but unfortunately...nothing that obvious. I have an electric fuel pump AND the mechanicial one, but it wasn't hooked up. Just there for back up purposes.

 

At lunch today I drove it home, barely, to figure out what was going on. In my mind, there was something blocking to fuel pickup tube in the tank and that's why when I shut it off, it would lose the pressure, and object would fall off, and off I'd go again. So I started at the back and took out the pick up tube. I blew through it and it was not obstructed. I looked in the fuel tank....nothing floating around or settled in there. So I put that back together. I took a look at the recently replaced fuel filter by the electic pump and it was clean and full of gas.

 

I went to the engine and looked at that fuel filter. Again, clean and full of fuel. So I took the fuel line off and took the top of the carb off to see what the inside of the bowl looked like. It was pretty clean, but I soaked all of the gas out and took at the jets and made sure they were clean, and did the same with the needle and seat. I put them both back in, and reassembled the carb. While I was at it, I thought maybe there was something stuck in the fuel regulator, so I took it apart. Nothing there that wasn't supposed to be.

 

After I put it all back together, I turned the key, listened for the pump and it started right up. I got out and looked at things and all filters were full, and flowing and the pump was working. However, it still sputtered a little as I drove away. About 3 miles from home...she died. (No the tank isn't empty..more than half full.)

 

I luckily found a shade tree, and parked underneath it to try something else. This time I decided to re-rout my fuel line and use the mechanical fuel pump in conjunction with the electric. I did this, and the car started right up as usual. I got back to work, but still noticed a few spits and sputters.

 

The car wouldn't start like it usually does. It took quite a while and a pump of the gas pedal and it started. But then it sounded flooded and then died. When I started it back up, it was happy as could be. But on the way home, more spitting and sputtering, and more dying. Still, I'd shut the car off, and it would start right back up, if not instantly, fairly quickly. I heard it back fire a few times too. When I pulled in the driveway, I opened the hood and the trunk to look at the filter to make sure there was fuel. Both filters are clean and full.

 

So....what the hell? I'm hoping somebody can tell me what's going on with the "wonderful little car"....I have to say that because she might be listening. She plays games with me, but we won't get into that now. Is there another valve or something in the carb that I need to look at? I mean, at lunch at went throught the entire fuel system. I'm sure it's fuel....well, 98% sure. Just put all new igntion/tune up within the last 2 months, and new points (again) three weeks ago. (First set broke. On the Highway. Yeah...) I'd really appreciate some input from you brainiacs out there! Thanks...

 

Darrin

[MikeWooldridge]

Loose wire at coil? Tach jumping is indicator.

[darrinos]

I checked that...but I'm sure willing to do it again!

[Buckeye]

Tell us about ignition system. Dist. Cap, plugs condition, breaker point or what kind of dizzy, coil, etc. how old are they. Timing, dwel angle. When was last all items were checked and replaced. examine ignition system very very closely. How long have you had the car?

[Simeon]

When was the last time you changed your condenser?

[darrinos]

Ok to answer questions....New distributor cap and rotor, new points, new plug wires, new plugs, new condensor, Tii distributor (mechanical advance). All of this was done within the last three months. The points that I replaced at that time broke, so I put in a new set about 3 weeks ago. Gap set at .17 thou....I suspect that part of the problem may be a plug because it's either cylinder 2 or 3 that fouls now and then...a lot of buildup on it. I always set the timing by sound, so I have no clue on the dwell, timing etc. I've had the car for 3 years now and I've nearly always had a fuel issue with it for a good 2 years. It goes in fits...it will run like a champ for weeks at a time and then, usually when I'm on a 150mi trip, it causes me trouble.

 

Here's something weird...now that I've been having trouble with it quiting like it's out of fuel...now it suddenly doesn't like to start, like it's getting too much fuel all of a sudden. But after I get it started, and it clears out, it's been running fine. This, since I changed the front brake pads! Seriously. I know one has nothing to do with the other, but that's all I've done to it since I brought it home from work and now it starts hard but runs out great on the highway and around town now. I just can't figure this thing out. Still need your guys input. I'm going to re-wire the terminals on the coil tomorrow just because it will make me feel better.

['76mintgrün'02]

I always set the timing by sound, so I have no clue on the dwell, timing etc.

 

Well, time to buy yourself a tool!

I bought the Innova Pro light, which has RPM, Adjustable Advance Timing Light, Dwell and a Volt Meter... all in one.

It makes me happy.

 

Setting points with a feeler gauge will make it run, but dialing the points in requires a dwell meter.

 

Setting timing by ear is fun and a gun will tell you how you've done... GET ONE!

[Buckeye]

what about the coil? Original, blue, red, black, resistor wire?, part number is located at the bottom of coil. Have tested coil voltage, etc.

[darrinos]

I do have a timing light, just never use it. I don't think it's adjustable though...just a basic light. I'll take a look at that, but adjusting my timing at this point isn't as much a concern as just keeping it running. The coil is not the original. As I said, I'm going to check/redo the connections on it. This morning, it started up instantly, as opposed to last night, and ran without a problem all the way to work. I don't mind that part, it's just the inconsistency of it all. I'll keep ya'll updated....sure appreciate all of your ideas and help.

[ClarenceTE72]

If your ignition system is well sorted and you are getting spark without loose wires and with good grounds. Try checking the lines for constant fuel pressure from the pump with a pressure gauge. Check it at different parts to see if you're getting constant fuel pressure. And also check the floats on the carburetors and see if its adjusted accordingly. Make sure all the parts in the carb are tight and well sealed unless you need to rebuild it. Also check your fuel pump voltage to see if it's constant. These cars are pretty simple to work on and diagnose.

 

I would make a check list and make sure you check:

 

Air intake / vaccum leaks.

Fuel system - pressure and delivery (which you have done most of it)

Ignition system properly functioning

Electrical system of the fuel

 

It can only be within one of these categories and it will be a simple fix, its just a matter of patience and some luck to find that little bug... Good luck!!

Edited August 18, 2015 by ClarenceTE72

[Hans]

AS other sage posters have said, most of your fuel problems are electric.Hence the bevy of suggestions that you go over the ignition system. Changing points, etc., can change timing. You should dig out the light and use it.

As for fuel side, how old is the gas in the tank? Where is the engine fuel filter located? Resting on the head by any chance?

['76mintgrün'02]

If you are running points, I consider a dwell meter to be a must have tool.  A feeler gauge will get you close, but a dwell meter will allow you to dial it in.  This is especially true with maintaining points' gap, once they have been used.  Once they begin to wear, the feeler gauge is setting the gap between the high points on both surfaces, not the actual gap.  Any change in dwell angle also affects timing, so the dwell is set first, followed by timing.  Accuracy is everything.

 

A basic light is fine for setting timing to the recommended setting, but an advanceable gun will let you assess how the advance mechanism is functioning within the distributor.  With the gun set at zero, the BB should show up in the window at 1400 rpm, for a non-tii (fuel system, not distributor model).  The BB is at twenty-five degrees before top dead center.  If you then set the gun at seven degrees of advance, you can rev the engine and see that the BB is in the window at about 3k rpm.  This would indicate 'all-in' at thirty-two degrees btdc.  An adjustable light will allow you to plot the advance curve throughout the rpm range.  It really is a very 'educational' tool.  Hence the soap box.

 

Along the lines of fuel problems, have you checked the fuel lines coming off of the fuel sender in the trunk?  They were the cloth covered originals in my car.  If they crack, they can allow air to be sucked into the line and cause fuel starvation issues; as well as stinky fuel leaks.  Another thing to check while you are under the trunk board, is the plastic sleeve on the sender nipple.  If it has cracked, it can also allow air to be sucked in.

 

The nice thing about having an 'elusive' problem is that it often leads to peripheral improvements.  I am just offering a few possibilities to choose from. 

[darrinos]

Let me say that I appreciate the treasure of information and help from all of you.

 

The car seems to be running well now...not exactly sure why....maybe "bad gas"? The fuel wasn't old as I drive it everyday to work and back and also on weekends about 300+ miles. But I filled it up this morning and it's been running real well...not dying or back-firing. However, it isn't starting quick like it used to and is acting like it's flooded. So that's my new problem...

 

I get what you said about the dwell meter, and if I were going to keep this distributor, I'd probably get one...but wanting to move to electronic soon. And a Schrick cam...and either the 38/38 mechanical Weber or dual side drafts...but we'll see. I'll do the dizzy first.

 

Anyway...now the hard starting issue....

[darrinos]

So I've come to the conclusion that I don't so much fix the car...instead it "decides" to run better. It's been perfect all day today from start up to shut down. Except now the secondary doesn't work...and all I did was put on new brake pads. It's playing with me.

['76mintgrün'02]

You could send an email (I don't have the address here) and find out what day your car was manufactured, or 'born' and then enter that date into an astrology site, such as astro.com.

 

That way you could figure out what would be the best day to work on your car... based on its 'mood'.

 

Edit:   I got curious and entered my car's information into that site.  

 

It sounds like Friday would be a good day to do some work on mine:

 

Personal Daily Horoscope of Friday, 21 August 2015

for Bmw 2002, born 21 October 1976

   Send page      Taking stock  

This is a time when you should strive to integrate your energies with those of the people around you - your friends, neighbors and the groups that you identify with. You will be able to work very effectively with others now, and your goals and objectives will harmonize with those of the people you associate with. You will do this without any loss of identity; in fact, you will feel that what you do affirms your identity. This is a good time for socializing with others. You will enjoy people's company and derive much benefit from being with them. Now you should find out what you have succeeded in doing and what has failed and prepare for your birthday, when the next cycle will begin.

 

Today, not so much:

 

Personal Daily Horoscope of Wednesday, 19 August 2015

for Bmw 2002, born 21 October 1976

   Send page      Not at all obvious ** During this time authority figures and close relationships, especially old ones from the past, are most likely the objects of your revolt, if you feel it necessary to rebel. You will be much more easily angered than usual, because you quickly interpret everything as a threat to your ego. Above all else, you feel that you must assert your ego in your own highly individual way. And if you have been unconscious of the need for creative change in your life, you are likely to be quite explosive. Sometimes, however, the "explosions" happen to you, which is a sign from your environment that you need to break away from something, although what that is may not be at all obvious. An accident can be the sign of frustrated ego energies transmuted into destructive powers. Edited August 19, 2015 by '76Mintgrun'02