body and interior Bad news. Scrap or is it worth saving? (lots of pics)

[winstontj]

Finally started getting to work on the car that I though was a '70 which turns out to be a '71. A quick background: I bought the car almost sight-unseen about 8 years ago. I never checked it out in detail, always assumed it needed a full restoration. I knew the floors were shot (rusted through and missing) as well as the rear towers so condition didn't matter that much. I thought I knew what I was getting into. It was shoved it into a storage unit and sat. For the record I think I paid $200 for this car. 

 

My idea for this car has always been a restored and "tastefully modified" roundie. I knew it had rust so somewhat bastardizing the car was always better than crushing it. 

 

Tonight I put the thing up on jackstands and pulled the hood and left fender. This is what I found. 

 

Is it worth saving? To the racers that see this: Is this shell worth trying to cut up and cage? Should I just strip & part it, scrap the chassis and start looking for a new roundie to build?

 

In case you can't make it out. There is fluff (mice) through the rust holes in the frame rail (behind the fuse box). Needs floors, fenders, rear towers, nose (there is a big bumper nose on there see the squares all hack-welded up), hood, front frame rails, pedal box, rocker panels... and that's all I can see just after pulling the front left fender. 

 

I question whether or not I have the skills (or patience) to take this on as my first restoration. Is it that bad? 

 

Restore?

Cage and race the crap out of it?

Scrap?

 

Thanks for looking... Blunt you aren't allowed to answer because this car probably equals about 20 mortgage payments for you 

 

(sunflower seed was from the hoards of mouse food falling out of the body panels)

[joysterm]

IMHO, I think you are better off with car that has  more to offer and less to replace...this one looks like to has more than enough  metal work to make it work.

['76mintgrün'02]

R.I.P.

 

 

sorry

Edited December 8, 2015 by '76Mintgrun'02

[Tommy]

As much as I hope all -02's could be saved for this one I need to vote - scrap. There's just too much rust in too many places. I can't see condition of rockers but based on the places seen on the pics they are also bad. You do seem really patient, based on the fact that you've collected parts for your restoration more than eight years but I think it would be wasted effort to start with this one. Even though you would do all the work yourself it will get more expensive to fix everything compared to finding a shell in better condition. My advice - Save the parts and pieces of body that are good (if there is any) and find a better shell to start your project.

 

  Tommy

[Preyupy]

I have found that 80%+ of the people that ask "I'm not sure if I have the skills to take on this project" DON'T. Of the other 20% most of them will start the project and get well into it before they discover they don't either. Of the few that are left they either use it as a learning project and never finish it or finish it and wonder why they even started it.

The only reason to restore a plain 1602 or 2002 that is in that kind of condition is if your family bought it new and it is a member of the family ( in this case emotion completly overrides any sense of reality and you can rationalize the cost because you will NEVER SELL IT) you can easily spend $30,000 restoring a car that will be worth $15,000 when you are done. Rust repair is no more expensive on a CSL, early 911, 2002 turbo or Ferrari 250SWB than it is on a 2002, it's just labor $$$/time. The big difference is the least expensive thing on that list is worth$100,000 when you are done! Spending $50-60k to get there makes sense as long as you bought it right.

Go find a NON RUSTY ONE!

[winstontj]

As much as I hope all -02's could be saved for this one I need to vote - scrap. There's just too much rust in too many places. I can't see condition of rockers but based on the places seen on the pics they are also bad. You do seem really patient, based on the fact that you've collected parts for your restoration more than eight years but I think it would be wasted effort to start with this one. Even though you would do all the work yourself it will get more expensive to fix everything compared to finding a shell in better condition. My advice - Save the parts and pieces of body that are good (if there is any) and find a better shell to start your project.

 

  Tommy

 

All I can tell you Tommy is that the very first thing I bought for that shell was NOS rocker panels. I can take photos of the pop-rivets, massive gaps and rust but I think you get the picture. I thought it only needed front floors, towers and rockers. Now seeing that it has the wrong (late model) nose, the front frame rails are both FUBAR, rust all down the A pillars/firewall, needs a tire well --and I haven't really even started to strip down the car yet... 

 

Its a numbers game and financially smarter to start with a clean shell 10 times out of 10. I've always really wanted a short chrome bumper car with a sunroof...

 

Time to ask Santa for a new Sawzall for Christmas... 

[winstontj]

Hoping this gets bumped back up with this reply. 

 

Have a friend (VW guy) who says the car is fine. Is the general consensus to scrap it and look for a better chassis to start with? 

 

If so, other than the obvious (motor, trans, suspension, bumpers, lights) what should I part out or keep from this car? If its good should I take the roof clip? (sunroof)

[joysterm]

"fine" in this case is a rather objective view i guess, but if still in doubt find a restoration guy to have a look at it. I am sure his POV will give you an idea how much work is involved not to mention the cost and related stress. Cut your loss and find another. 

 

To relate a recent personal experience. I passed on a shell yesterday that had some relatively minor rust issues in a few spots, but it had been repainted red (not factory) over inka. Very badly I might add. There was well over 5K in metal work before it was ready for paint and that was only for what was visible.  I walked away because of what was possibly  lurking under all that prep work (if any) and bad paint. I chose to pick another fight and where to spend the money. It made more sense to me at the end of the day to simply wait for another prospect to come along. Do not let emotion get in the way.  I urge you to take a step back and re-avaluate.  

 

 

As far as parting the roof clip;  you may find someone in the need for one, but you may find that you will eventually have to send it off to scrap as I did, after waiting months for a buyer. If you have the room and patience go for it. That would apply to anything that is salvageable.

 

Mike

[winstontj]

Thanks for all the feedback. I've pulled off the driver's side rocker panel this afternoon/evening (drilled out the pop rivets under the bondo as it wasn't even welded into the car) and have found much, much more rust. 

 

My problem is that this was going to be my first full restoration and I planed on doing ALL of the work myself. This is simply above my skill set and level of patience/dedication. Unless there is something rare or unique about the car/VIN I'll part and scrap it. I don't need to take it to a shop to get an estimate --the number would come in between $15k-$30k for metalwork and for less than $5k I can be patient and wait for a '69 short chrome bumper car in a color I like. 

 

While I wait I have a couple of other toys I can play with/restore. 

[joysterm]

Take something positive out of the exercise....you have gained some invaluable experience and knowledge. This will pay big dividends down  when the next opportunity comes along.

[TNan]

Damn!  My car looks worse then yours. I spent a year just stripping it down to its bare chassis only to find a shit load of rust AND a frame rail that is totally destroyed. Now, after reading all these posts - I'm also questioning my game plan.  

 

The real discouraging part I continuously read is "you should buy a rust-free 02 and cut your losses". Do they exist?  And I'm not referring to a showroom restored $25K+ car.

[jerry]

since you only have $200 and the cost of storage into it and not the patience required to fix it yourself, the choice is made for you.  i have a soft spot for the mid-year 71's as this car is.  the dash should not have a fasten seat belt gizmo and the dash knobs have neat little emblems specific only to this year.  there are no words above the knobs either.  and chances are that it has the spaghetti seat belts which are higher quality than the retractable ones, if a bit more work to deal with.  these are also the last of the lovely single barrel solex carbs.  i restored one  years ago to stock condition and it was a joy to drive with skinny tires and thin swaybars.  i did put a 5 speed in it though.  i sold it on the FAQ to a very capable caretaker who's taken it to the next level.

 

i have 2575914 in malaga and i look forward to driving it this year, warts and all.

[pklym]

Make it go and stop. Sell it to someone for $1500.

[winstontj]

Damn!  My car looks worse then yours. I spent a year just stripping it down to its bare chassis only to find a shit load of rust AND a frame rail that is totally destroyed. Now, after reading all these posts - I'm also questioning my game plan.  

 

The real discouraging part I continuously read is "you should buy a rust-free 02 and cut your losses". Do they exist?  And I'm not referring to a showroom restored $25K+ car.

 

I look at it this way. I can buy another '70-'71 in any color I want or even if I'm patient wait for a short-chrome bumper '69 for under $4k delivered to my doorstep and my '71 is going to need at least that in work and sheet metal just to get it even with a decent $3,500-$4k Cali or TX car. So that's a ton of time and work on my part just to get me to even. 

 

Yes you can get good, clean, rust-free cars (or fairly rust free) for the same or less than the cost of the body panels. 

 

 

 

since you only have $200 and the cost of storage into it and not the patience required to fix it yourself, the choice is made for you.  i have a soft spot for the mid-year 71's as this car is.  the dash should not have a fasten seat belt gizmo and the dash knobs have neat little emblems specific only to this year.  there are no words above the knobs either.  and chances are that it has the spaghetti seat belts which are higher quality than the retractable ones, if a bit more work to deal with.  these are also the last of the lovely single barrel solex carbs.  i restored one  years ago to stock condition and it was a joy to drive with skinny tires and thin swaybars.  i did put a 5 speed in it though.  i sold it on the FAQ to a very capable caretaker who's taken it to the next level.

 

i have 2575914 in malaga and i look forward to driving it this year, warts and all.

 

You are killing me Jerry...    playing on my emotions... I do love this car. The color is great (I like it) and it is one of the later/last Nevada cars, the missing words above the knobs (didn't know that was year specific), the funky seatbelts... and yes, the single barrel solex was a lot of fun to drive, equal or better than the 32/36 I had on my '74. No the dash doesn't have a seatbelt sign either. 

 

It's just that it needs SOOOOooooo much work. Its got the wrong nose, needs floors, firewall work, lower front & rear window frames are shot, trunk/tire well is shot, rear towers are shot, lower A and B pillars are shot, rockers are shot. It needs to be taken apart and reassembled as a whole new car. Oh and the hood, trunk and doors are full of holes and bondo. 

 

Its not that I don't have the patience, I question whether or not I have the skills (welding & body work) and the motivation to pour blood, sweat, tears (and a lot of money) into a car that will never be worth what I put into it. If the general reaction was "don't let that die! its a rare/unique/historical car" then I wouldn't have questioned scrapping it. Its just that for less than $5k I can pick up a '69 with almost no rust. 

 

 

Make it go and stop. Sell it to someone for $1500.

 

I could put the hood and fender back on it and it would go and stop. The engine and drivetrain are fine --i'm just scared that I drove it the way it is and that it didn't fold in half. But good point. 

[NickVyse]

That would be a sound project car in the UK!