other Nice '72 tii on Bat

[ray_]

Yes, but there's still a lot of third-hand, or possibly fourth-hand, or maybe fifth-hand, information provided. And the third owner isn't quite certain he's the third owner, but thinks he probably purchased the car from the second owner. And if this third (?) owner isn't absolutely certain he's the third owner, I'd suspect he never actually spoke to the original owner. Even with a single owner, a lot of history is forgotten, or mis-remembered. Just ask me. Or did you ask me already? Well, the crispness of the history generally fades rapidly as additional layers of ownership are introduced.

For example, the current Motorsports stripes are described as duplicates of earlier Motorsports stripes that were allegedly on the car at its initial delivery by the dealer. This information comes from a prior owner but I don't get the impression it was necessarily the first owner. The car was manufactured February 1972 and BMW created the Motorsports division in May 1972. Motorsport stripes were not a factory option on tii's -- ever -- and I don't believe anyone is suggesting they were original from the factory. The suggestion is that they were dealer installed. But when were the Motorsports stripes invented and reproduced? Assuming 8 weeks for shipping, and some period of time in the U.S. dealer's inventory, the car was likely delivered April-July 1972. Does anyone recall whether aftermarket Motorsport stripes (or OEM stripes, for that matter) were available in 1972? I simply don't know. I believe that prototype factory turbos were working with the stripes by mid-'73, but I have no remembrances of or pictorial sources for Motorsports stripes in 1972. And I swear I never saw an '02 with these stripes in 1972.

Why do the stripes matter? Well, the stripes themselves don't matter at all. They're simply a matter of taste, and it sounds like they could be removed without damage to the finish. But if this style of stripes didn't exist at the time this car was delivered, you realize that you probably don't have a complete picture of the car's earliest history. Unless there are lots of un-noted documents accompanying the car, you really don't know much of anything about the car's history. My '73 tii, likewise, has an un-known history. I have NO idea what my '73 went through from the time of its sale until '93, when it was last registered in California (I do have two radiator service tags that place the car in Southern California, assuming, based on its date, that the radiator is original) -- I have some vague descriptions of its 1993-to-2000 history from the previous owner, who purchased it in 2000. If you are the second, third, or whichever owner of your car, and you assume your car's history was all Zymol wax, garage-kept, accident- and rust-free -- over a 40-50 year period -- you're probably wrong. I suppose that's the point that annoys me every time a seller -- generally with no first-hand knowledge -- assumes his car led a charmed life, was never hit, and required no repairs.

According to the third, or maybe he's the fourth, owner, the car is well nigh perfect. The original Polaris paint survived until 2014, but was re-done to make the car more perfect. I suppose that's possible assuming the original Polaris looked a bit like the photo below by 2014: my '76's original paint in late 2015.

I would guess that this car will sell for a price comfortably into the $20K's, assuming that such a price meets the reserve. And that's fair in my opinion.

Regards,

Steve

 

 

I cringed when I read about the stripes also.

 

... But at least it still has the Googlefischer! :D

 

shoch-

I bought this clean original unmolested Tii from (I believe) the 2nd owner in SFO. It is an unrusted CAL car. I flew out and inspected it from A-Z , then had it shipped back to JAX and did a sympathetic restoration . Basically disassemble the car- took out all the glass and all the engine&bits under the hood. Repainted original color with all new rubber trim. It has never been painted but was so good condition, i figured it warranted a first class paint job. Most accessories were done-hoses, fuel lines, master cyl, radiator, drive line, ,exhaust,intake runners, Googlefischer ,wheels trued, aligned,new trim. The original front seats are in my hanger. I planned on keeping the car in my collection for ever, but was swayed away by Dick Barbour.s Carrera Lt. Wt. recreation. So, we traded. I have NO DOG in this hunt- just helping potential buyer know what a great car this is. It needs nothing! Drive it to a show, or across the country. Just so you know, I have put over 3 times the current bid in this car after looking for 4 years for a GOOD Tii roundie.

[thehackmechanic]

Of the three tiis I own:

 

--The '72 (nicest of the bunch) was cracked in the nose at some point in the distant past. Nose and fenders were replaced, so it has a snorkel. And, aside from the snorkel, the welds are quite obvious in not looking factory.

 

--The '74 is a lifelong New England car that was restored in '82, had every body panel replaced, so it too has a snorkel. Welds are pretty good (Dick's Auto Body did it, back in the day).

 

--Only the '73 -- by far the rattiest of the bunch (the one I bought from the post on the classifieds here that had been sitting outside in New England for ten years) has a snorkel-less nose.

 

So in this very small statistical sampling, the presence or absence of the snorkel is completely uncorrelated to the values of the cars.

 

But people now know to look for this even if they don't know that much about 2002s or tiis. Sort of like Olympic spectators saying, after seeing a gymnast fly through the air, "but she didn't stick the landing!"

[wegweiser]

I am 100% with cda951 (Chris) as well. You nailed it. After countless 2002s over the last 30 years, I finally own one that's nearly 100% unmolested. Other than some Bilsteins, 175 width tires and a stainless exhaust, it remains *virtually* bone stock. I don't have the heart to modify it… and that makes this one a unique experience for me all around. If it wasn't a tii….and a reasonably early one… and with a history…. I might not feel the same about it. I'm hoping that my own desire to keep it this way isn't based on some bullshit "investment / resale" mental exercise…but because I simply think having a goofy stock 2002 is kind of cool and funky. So far it remains the most fun 02 I've ever owned. Sure I miss having one I can mess with and make crazy stupid fast or low or tricked out…. but not *that* much. 

 

Photo for both a) gloating purposes and b )  actual, accurate, bare metal depiction of tii core support.

Edited January 19, 2016 by wegweiser

[tomphot]

I'm less than a year into the Tii world and have wondered what the huge obsession is about the snorkel. These cars are 40 years old and I'm sure that a lot of parts and pieces have been replaced over that period yet it seems that if the snorkel is present, the car is tainted some how. My car came with a binder full of expenses dating to the '70's, including a rust repair and pics to the rear quarter dating to the '90s, insurance repair and door replacement dating to the '80s. What the car doesn't have is documentation as to why it has a snorkel, would the car be worth more if it wasn't there despite the other work that had been done?

With my 356, these things (all original body panels) only become important when they are 6 figure examples. The Tii's are far from that at this point.

[Conserv]

 

...So in this very small statistical sampling, the presence or absence of the snorkel is completely uncorrelated to the values of the cars....

+1

I agree, Rob. The current effect on a tii's overall value -- of a snorkel or snorkel-less nose -- is...$0. Some day it might make a difference. But it doesn't today.

Regards,

Steve

[ray_]

I'm less than a year into the Tii world and have wondered what the huge obsession is about the snorkel. These cars are 40 years old and I'm sure that a lot of parts and pieces have been replaced over that period yet it seems that if the snorkel is present, the car is tainted some how. My car came with a binder full of expenses dating to the '70's, including a rust repair and pics to the rear quarter dating to the '90s, insurance repair and door replacement dating to the '80s. What the car doesn't have is documentation as to why it has a snorkel, would the car be worth more if it wasn't there despite the other work that had been done?

With my 356, these things (all original body panels) only become important when they are 6 figure examples. The Tii's are far from that at this point.

 

 

Bbbut... what would be left to talk about??

 

Dimples? 

[lilmo]

I'm less than a year into the Tii world and have wondered what the huge obsession is about the snorkel. These cars are 40 years old and I'm sure that a lot of parts and pieces have been replaced over that period yet it seems that if the snorkel is present, the car is tainted some how. My car came with a binder full of expenses dating to the '70's, including a rust repair and pics to the rear quarter dating to the '90s, insurance repair and door replacement dating to the '80s. What the car doesn't have is documentation as to why it has a snorkel, would the car be worth more if it wasn't there despite the other work that had been done?

With my 356, these things (all original body panels) only become important when they are 6 figure examples. The Tii's are far from that at this point.

As long as the snorkel isn't rusty, you're golden.

[02Les]

According to the third, or maybe he's the fourth, owner, the car is well nigh perfect. The original Polaris paint survived until 2014, but was re-done to make the car more perfect. I suppose that's possible assuming the original Polaris looked a bit like the photo below by 2014: my '76's original paint in late 2015.

Regards,

Steve

FWIW:

The car was owned by a Gitendra Chitty (Indian?), Westchester Cty, NY from 2008 to 2013. The car then appeared on Ebay (probably by a Dealer) in 2013 located in Walnut Creek, CA; this was pre-resto.

Pcs below are from 2012.

[Delia]

Jet2jeff1: "I bought this car in San Francisco where it spent its entire life. It has not been hit."

 

​"TO ALL THE SHIPS AT SEA:

(and you arm chair X-perts)

There is NO rust on this car, over."

 

 

 

 

So, riddle me this, Batman: 

 

1) If this car "has not been hit", why was the nose replaced?

 

2) If this has "NO rust," why were the front fenders replaced?

 

3) I know 02Les has been tracking tii sales for as long as I can remember.  So he knows what it's been up to and where it's been. (Hint: It wasn't San Francisco)

 

It doesn't appear as if our seller is quite as transparent or knowledgeable as he would have us  - or a potential purchaser - believe.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Delia

[Conserv]

FWIW:The car was owned by a Gitendra Chitty (Indian?), Westchester Cty, NY from 2008 to 2013. The car then appeared on Ebay (probably by a Dealer) in 2013 located in Walnut Creek, CA; this was pre-resto.Pcs below are from 2012.2760941 1g.jpg2760941 1i.jpg

Thank you, Les,

As always, your "facts" are often inconvenient or embarrassing to those who would knowingly or unwittingly mis-lead us!

The license plates in your photos are, in addition, New York plates. And that is most certainly NOT an original 1972 BMW metallic paint after 40 years. The car was re-painted at least once previously, before the 2014 re-paint, which simply opens the possibility that there may have been body work -- am I suggesting rust repair? -- previously. It also calls into question those "original delivery" stripes... How'd they get original stripes on top of non-original paint? And was this car ever even in California prior to 2013? If so, what is the evidence of that?

Lesson: if you don't know the history of your car, please just say, "I don't know the history of my car", or "I don't know the history of my car prior to XXXX date." Don't say, "My car has never been hit or molested, and there is not a drop of rust"!

Regards,

Steve

Edited January 19, 2016 by Conserv

[kbmb02]

Another data point:

 

Tii's = 2, Snorkels = 0

(one a Polaris '74 driver, the other an Atlantik '73 waiting for ground-up rebuild (and a buyer for either, perhaps...))

 

And, I'm so ready to get a carbureted street car on the road. -KB

[bento]

Wow. Quite a bidding war at the end. Closed at $38k.

[walkinfool]

This just in...after a crazy bidding war, the tii sold for $38K.

Edited January 19, 2016 by walkinfool

[jfunk]

38K - wow.  I think it's a sweet car and I'm pretty sure the seller is happy.  While this forum is obviously biased, I'll ask anyway... are the beloved Tii's now at the 30K+ mark?

[Beemeup]

Happy to see people finally realizing what a great car these 2002's are....snorkel or no snorkel. Did it meet reserve?

Edited January 19, 2016 by Beemeup