engine and drivetrain Tii heater return pipe

[JohnH]

My starter motor solenoid has been acting up. Giving it a few raps doesn't seem to be "fixing" it any more, so removal and inspection was called for. In order to get at the top nut I undid the heater return pipe fixing so that I could ease the pipe back and get a spanner (15mm) in there.

 

Needless to say the pipe was rusted under the fixing and a coolant drip ensued.

 

 

 

So now for the question. Just how difficult is it to remove this damn pipe without taking the whole engine apart? I've looked and can see the hose clip at the left hand end;

 

 

Is there anything else I have to undo?

 

If I have to take it all aprt I may just bodge it for now and cut the leaky bit ont and replace it with a length of hose. What do you think?

[eurotrash]

Not sure what work you will need to do.  But I have a good used pipe if you need one.  PM me.

[Ringworm02]

The hose clamp you are pointing to is difficult, and the hose in the middle of the pipe is even harder. The hose in the middle feeds the warm-up regulator on the k-pump. There are three connections on that pipe. Guarantee that pipe is corroded inside, like mine was, and if it fails, you will lose all of the coolant instantly. Invest in a new pipe, it'll be money well spent. I think they are less than a $100. Also replace the three hoses while you're in there. And that mounting clip. You will need to remove all of the induction pipes to get at it. Surely a PITA, but worth it.

[Simeon]

Oh-ohh I detect a strong case of 'while you are there...'.

[jgerock]

Try to find a stainless steel pipe.  Think there was a group buy at one point (I missed out). 

 

I still have the old one in my 73tii (but replaced all the hoses). Picture from July 19, 2008

 

Crusty 72tii engine

[2002#3]

The above advice is spot-on:  (1) if the pipe goes, you're screwed...instantly and (2) replace it.  Got mine from Rogerstii ($127) in only 2 days.

 

I am in the middle of replacing every single piece of my cooling system:  pump, tstat, replacing the machanical fan with an electric fan, the 5 main (in front of engine) hoses, the 6 "auxillary/side" (beside the engine block) hosesk, and ~1974 period screw clamps  Everything has been removed and am just starting to put in all new parts.  I decided to replace those 6 or so supremely, exceedingly PITA-to-remove and PITA-to-replace side hoses. I am replacing the metal coolant return pipe discussed in the above posts, eventhough mine looks pretty good.  To remove the pipe, I had to remove three throttle linkages and the support which attaches to the block and holds up the throttle body.  I saw no other way.  Now have a nice new pipe painted high-temp primer behind 6 shiny new hoses.  Sweet.  

 

For me, advantages of performing this project on the side of the engine block include (1) piece of mind difficult-to-access hoses are new and dependable, (2) a chance to clean deeper parts of the engine, levers, rods, surfaces, etc., that otherwise could never be cleaned, and (3) a chance to learn more about your car's engine and how it works.  

 

As I see it, and at the most, removal of only one induction runner might be necessary to install the really long, multi-curved, hose going up behind the runners.  My BMW mechanic friend says this hose can be replaced without removing a runner.  I gotta see it to believe it.

 

Removal of the side hoses and pipe took a few hours; replacement will probably take even more time.  Piece of coolant mind, priceless.  

 

Good luck.

[stone02]

Hi,

  i have done this a few times. with the starter out you can 

replace the pipe. remove the throttle linkage that bolts to the

block and the rest will take time but it is easy labor.replace 

every hose on the car while doing this. also change out the 

air bypass hose from the warm up regulator to the under

side of the plenum. cleaning and replacing the parts as it goes

back together is a good thing to do. start to finish, 8 hrs and

lunch break.

good luck

stone 

[2002#3]

...if I might add to my previous post:  Is removing an intake runner (say, the second one from the firewall) a big deal, or can I simply un bolt it, remove it, and reattach it?  Any thing of which I should be aware?  Any torque specs?  

...if I might add to my previous post:  Is removing an intake runner (say, the second one from the firewall) a big deal, or can I simply un bolt it, remove it, and reattach it?  Any thing of which I should be aware?  Any torque specs?  

[JohnH]

Everyone, thanks for the observations and suggestions. 

 

I've been making some progress;

 

 

There are more tools just off camara!!!

 

Some replies to your comments;

 

Not sure what work you will need to do.  But I have a good used pipe if you need one.  PM me.

 

Thanks for the offer, but unfortunately I'm 1/4 of the way around the planet from you, probably not cost effective.

 

The hose clamp you are pointing to is difficult, and the hose in the middle of the pipe is even harder. The hose in the middle feeds the warm-up regulator on the k-pump. There are three connections on that pipe. Guarantee that pipe is corroded inside, like mine was, and if it fails, you will lose all of the coolant instantly. Invest in a new pipe, it'll be money well spent. I think they are less than a $100. Also replace the three hoses while you're in there. And that mounting clip. You will need to remove all of the induction pipes to get at it. Surely a PITA, but worth it.

 

Your reply inspired me to continue. The really difficult one is the 17mm bolt just behind the left hand clamp, what a PITA. 

 

Oh-ohh I detect a strong case of 'while you are there...'.

 

No, definitely NO.

 

Try to find a stainless steel pipe.  Think there was a group buy at one point (I missed out). 

 

I still have the old one in my 73tii (but replaced all the hoses). Picture from July 19, 2008

 

 

Crusty 72tii engine

 

 

Jim, I have been using those pics which I found after using the search ( yes a nod to Esty). They are most helpful, as always. My block looks like your crusty one. Its always been my long term plan to pull the engine and paint it and clean up and detail the engine bay, but not at this time. No mission creep.

 

 

The above advice is spot-on:  (1) if the pipe goes, you're screwed...instantly and (2) replace it.  Got mine from Rogerstii ($127) in only 2 days.

 

...exceedingly PITA-to-remove and PITA-to-replace side hoses. 

 

Good luck.

 

Thank you. Yes exceedingly PITA!!!

 

Hi,

  i have done this a few times. with the starter out you can 

replace the pipe. remove the throttle linkage that bolts to the

block and the rest will take time but it is easy labor.replace 

every hose on the car while doing this. also change out the 

air bypass hose from the warm up regulator to the under

side of the plenum. cleaning and replacing the parts as it goes

back together is a good thing to do. start to finish, 8 hrs and

lunch break.

good luck

stone 

 

Thanks for that. I did replace the hose to the warmup regulator some years ago when it let go rather inconveniently. The air bypass hose seems like a candidate now as it seems rather hard and inflexible (it reminds me of me!!).   

 

OkAY (to quote Norm) its out;

 

 

It was knackered. As I gently untheaded it, it just broke in half!!!! 

 

 

[jgerock]

...if I might add to my previous post:  Is removing an intake runner (say, the second one from the firewall) a big deal, or can I simply un bolt it, remove it, and reattach it?  Any thing of which I should be aware?  Any torque specs?  

...if I might add to my previous post:  Is removing an intake runner (say, the second one from the firewall) a big deal, or can I simply un bolt it, remove it, and reattach it?  Any thing of which I should be aware?  Any torque specs?

You can remove them individually since they are angled. Might have to tap on them side to side with a rubber mallet to get it loose. The aluminum ones are a tight fit to the studs. Now you buy all new gaskets, pull the injectors for cleaning, buy copper washers for the injectors, and possibly replace the linkage rods ---you see why it is so easy to do more than you think!?!

...if I might add to my previous post:  Is removing an intake runner (say, the second one from the firewall) a big deal, or can I simply un bolt it, remove it, and reattach it?  Any thing of which I should be aware?  Any torque specs?  

...if I might add to my previous post:  Is removing an intake runner (say, the second one from the firewall) a big deal, or can I simply un bolt it, remove it, and reattach it?  Any thing of which I should be aware?  Any torque specs?

You can remove them individually since they are angled. Might have to tap on them side to side with a rubber mallet to get it loose. The aluminum ones are a tight fit to the studs. Now you buy all new gaskets, pull the injectors for cleaning, buy copper washers for the injectors, and possibly replace the linkage rods ---you see why it is so easy to do more than you think!?!

[jgerock]

Darn double post While you were posting. If your original rear clip is toast, look for a rubber lined 3/4" clamp from the big box hardware stores.

[JohnH]

Darn double post While you were posting. If your original rear clip is toast, look for a rubber lined 3/4" clamp from the big box hardware stores.

 

I blame the 2am backup. 0900gmt. Gets me every time. 

[Ringworm02]

Wow, that pipe is toast! It'll be nice and fresh when you are done.

 

Yeah, that 17mm bolt is a PITA, I conveniently forgot about that hassle.

[JohnH]

...if I might add to my previous post:  Is removing an intake runner (say, the second one from the firewall) a big deal, or can I simply un bolt it, remove it, and reattach it?  Any thing of which I should be aware?  Any torque specs?  

 

 

I have just removed my #1 runner to get a better view behind the k-fish;

 

 

12mm nuts threw me! Had to remove the PMV (pressure maintenance valve) from the k-fish in order to slide it off. Apart from that it came off with the gaskets virtually intact.

 

As far as removing #3 is concerned, the only PITA will be the two bolts holding the top end of the manifold support bracket. You can get it off, but can you get the bolts back in. ET maybe able to do it, but I doubt that my fat fingers will get in there. Similarly with the 17mm PITA.

 

Wow, that pipe is toast! It'll be nice and fresh when you are done.

 

Yeah, that 17mm bolt is a PITA, I conveniently forgot about that hassle.

 

I found I could get to it okay with one on these

 

 

Fiddly but doable. As above I not really sure how I'm going to get it back in.

 

Here is the cause of all my travails;

 

 

 

I do have a new pipe on the way from Jaymic, but they are out of stock at the moment so delivery will be delayed for a week or two. In the meantime I'm going to knock up a temporary one out of some copper plumbing pipe and fittings. More to follow.

[2002#3]

Here is an example of a new coolant return pipe with 3 coats of high-heat primer and paint.  Should look nice besided the block and behind 6 new hoses.