engine and drivetrain Thoughts on Estimate for Front Suspension Fixes

[silasmoon]

Alright the quest continues! So here are the things that I'd like to knock out - big evil glaring issues:

• Center Tie Rod
• Tie Rods
• Center Bearing
• Flex Disc
• Motor Mounts
• Transmission Mount
• Oil Pan Gasket
• Final Drive Gasket
• Wheel Allignment
• (Should I swap the pitman arm too?)

Shop charges $160/hr (Bavarian Pros in Berkeley, CA) x 8 hours = $1300 and $950 in BMW parts. The shop does pretty good work so I hear, but the Bay Area has a lotta shops. If I did it myself I am going to be - at best - in a hobbyist garage with sufficient tools, but little experience. I would say the job with zero air-tools and tom-foolery would take me 15 hours. I am equipped to handle finnicky day jobs, but I figured - when you're down there etc. 

So my questions are - does this estimate seem reasonable? Are any of these jobs really easy? Suggestions from Bay Area FAQ members for other shops? Once this get knocked out I think it will go a long way to alleviating the primary complaints that seem to have plagued this car for a while (pulling to the left and steering wheel wobble at speed). 

Edited February 9, 2016 by silasmoon

[adawil2002]

Yes sounds reasonable. I regularly spend $2K/year to keep Vern driving like a new car, translates to $0.25 or less per mile. I prefer to pay professionals with the proper training and tools to do the work as they also guarantee their work for a year where I am. Here in Maine labor is about $80-120/hour depending on the shop.

Edited February 9, 2016 by adawil2002

[Simeon]

$950 for the parts, even from BMW sounds steep. Get Blunt to price them (he can provide BMW too) and ask them if you can source the major parts.

Steve@blunttech.com

Oh and be prepared for a lot of 'while you are there' conversations as things are pulled apart and are suddenly not worth putting back or you realise that 80% of the effort of doing job x is removing all of the parts associated with job y so 'while you are there...'

I would get your shifter rebuilt while you have the drive shaft out for instance.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Simeon

[OriginalOwner]

I did motor mounts myself, not difficult.  Rear trans mount is very easy.  Flex disc (guibo) is easy.  I've had many years of doing mechanical "stuff" beginning at age 10, helping my dad.  Such gave me the confidence to then fix my own car.

     For me, I simply see a few bolts that need unbolting, the old piece is removed, the new piece is put into it's place, and the unbolted bolts are then rebolted.  If somebody can initally assemble it, I can then disassemble and reassemble.  Simple hand tools put to good use and powered by personal confidence.  Zen and the art of vehicle maintenance.

 

Cheers,

 

Carl

[silasmoon]

Here is the actual quote. Or see attached. How much are the parts to rebuild the shifter? Basically I am wondering if I can get away with a 500mi round trip with old limp tie rods and wobbling steering. I know I could do it - I just am wondering if $1300 is worth 20+ hours of my time.

Q4715.pdf

[TobyB]

It sounds to me like I need a new job.

 

No wonder I work on my own stuff...

 

t

[Simeon]

A kit of parts to rebuild your shifter is cheap. Under $50, probably closer to $30.

The labor cost doesn't seem too bad when looking at the bottom line but don't see how they can charge 1.5 hours for engine mounts when they are charging to drop the oil pan. How are they going to do that without touching the engine mounts?

Probably being unfair to a good shop but still...

[xferboy]

in my humble opinion, the most of the labour hours seem OK (ish).  There may be some fudge factor for unknowns/stuck parts. I can't comment on oil pan gasket change time of 3 hours.

 

Some of the parts seem really high priced (steering center tie rod, center bearing and flex disk), but I could be off.  Check with BLUNT, or others.

 

The 3 tie rod can be done with the addition of a tie rod spliter to your tool box.  Several types exist.  I have one that acts like a gear puller, others have one that is a bolt against a lever.  My least favorite is the pickle fork, but it does come in handy some days.

 

An hour for alignment....  Unless you've got funky parts (which I'm guessing you don't), there is only one adjustment... toe.  buy two tape measures, some random chunks of wood/metal and look up the articles mlytle has posted on the topic.  It may seem daunting, but it's not that bad (four nuts, twist the tubes, roll the car, measure, repeat until happy, tighten)

 

Also, steering wheel wobble could be wheel bearings.  MAY just need cleaning/re-greasing/adjusting.

 

Hope that helps

Edited February 9, 2016 by xferboy

[silasmoon]

Yeah I never know if these shops over-estimate to be safe, or under-estimate to get you in. I priced the parts on Blunt, and the shop is 1) Using all OEM BMW parts and 2) Likely charging a 15% premium right off the bat. Is it kosher to bring your own parts into shops? 

[AceAndrew]

Plenty of shops would rather you not bring your own parts, not really because of "losing out on parts money", but rather if one of the parts you purchased goes bad then they are on the hook.  Shops who aren't "vintage friendly" (like the shop you mentioned) will stick to OEM only parts in part out of being unsure of the quality of parts, they will also add in extra labor to perform work they aren't quite comfortable with.

 

Here on the FAQ we tend to be DIY-guys or shop guys (who generally remain a bit quite when these questions arise ... for good reason).

 

I would suggest getting a couple estimates from some vintage-friendly bay area shops.  The pricing is sure to be a bit more on point given each of them are familiar with 2002's ..

 

A1 Autowerks (San Rafael)

Casey Motorsports (Petaluma)

BTM Motorwerks (Campbell)

NorthBay Bavarian (Santa Rosa)

[silasmoon]

Thanks AceAndrew - I think my desire with posting this was to get a "feel" for the job. This is my first big - expected - wallop on the wallet to get this car going. I understand that folks on here don't want to be on the record for personal opinions on shops. My automotive experience previously was 16 year old me taking the Honda to get new tires, so I am sorta relying on you folks for the "trust worthy Uncle advice" so to speak - ha. I will give the other shops a call tomorrow to price compare. I also wanted to maybe get some opinions on whether or not to maybe swap the pitman arm or rebuild the shifter while they're on the old creeper with a cigarette. 

Cheers!  

[PaulTWinterton]

Price seems about right for a specialty shop.    $160/hr is high, SO I'd ask them to do one other important job at that price.

 

Inner and outer wishbone bushings are a must if they have never been done before.      IMHO. 

 

 

 

 

 

[AceAndrew]

Gotcha

 

Pitman arm bushings can be frustrating with the engine in, but there isn't a good reason not to do the shifter refresh (just be sure to have them do the support arm bush as well).  Add to your list ball joints and bushings.

 

When you call ... ask for,   JP@A1   Tom@CaseyMS   Brad@BTM and ... dang it, can't remember a name for the older guy (or the younger kid) at NorthBay.

Edited February 9, 2016 by AceAndrew

[Mike87]

$280+ for a center bearing is way out of line. You can have the driveshaft completely rebuilt for that cost, including the center bearing.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Mike87

[Hans]

On the front control arm front (or wishbones above) I think it makes more sense to buy the whole arm with bushings installed.

As you can see, the "while you're at it" list grows quickly. Depending on mileage, you might be looking at front wheel bearings, front bushings, ball joints and so on. Perhaps you need a mechanic to give teh car a lookover to see what it actually needs.

If you plan to keep this, or any old car for awhile, and depending on your budget,it would behove you to pick up some mechanical skills, shop manual and a tool set. $160/HR is going to add up if you have to go there all the time.And BMW dealer prices are often multiples of what you can get elsewhere.

To assess how bad the front end is, have an accomplce turn the steering wheel back and forth about 1/4 to 1/2 turn,while you peer under the car with a flashliht to watch the steering linkage moving. Put your hand on each joint to see which are loose.