engine and drivetrain Evaluating a '68 1600Ti

[FGS]

Hi everybody,

 

Long story short: I've found a 1600Ti which needs a total restoration. The seller says that the car is complete and original with the exception of the front seats and the shift lever knob which have been stolen while the car was stored in a garage far from his home.

 

He sent me the chassis plate (#1585171) but I'm waiting to receive a photo of the engine number.

 

I've some questions:

 

1) Is it possible to know if the chassis number is correct without contacting BMW?

2) I can't understand the color name, do you?

3) The car has a black front grille, is that correct?

4) The seller underlines that the car has still its original carburetors, are those so valuable?

 

Thanks in advance.

Francesco

Edited February 14, 2016 by FGS

[TobyB]

Well, the nose isn't original, that's for sure.

 

But the rest of it- well, it mostly looks ok.  Through the internet.

In my book, that would be a total basket case.

 

I don't know where you are, but in the PNW, the ti

just doesn't seem to have the cachet of the tii, even tho

the ti is much more rare.

 

More will be forthcoming, I'm sure.

 

t

[FGS]

Well, the nose isn't original, that's for sure.

 

But the rest of it- well, it mostly looks ok.  Through the internet.

In my book, that would be a total basket case.

 

I don't know where you are, but in the PNW, the ti

just doesn't seem to have the cachet of the tii, even tho

the ti is much more rare.

 

More will be forthcoming, I'm sure.

 

t

Italy.

 

Strange but here in Europe the Ti series is even more appreciated than the Ti, I suppose mostly because of the carburetors which are easier to work on and, of course, because of the production numbers.

 

F.

Edited February 14, 2016 by FGS

[MatthewCervi]

The color name is Turf.

[Simeon]

What's kind of exhaust manifold is that? The carbs may be original but they look like they need some serious work.

Does the engine turn by hand?

[Guest dq48]

That looks like one of the 2 that were f/s  in Vancouver 2 years ago

[FGS]

What's kind of exhaust manifold is that? The carbs may be original but they look like they need some serious work.

Does the engine turn by hand?

That is the mainfold cover. I didn't ask if the engine turns but, as long as I'd restore every bolt of it, I don't care about it. My concerns are only about the correctness of the car.

Edited February 14, 2016 by FGS

[jmr_1602]

Yup. Like Toby said. The nose panel is from a later square tail car. They use different grills and kidney. 1600's have all silver grills with no slats, BUT I think 1600ti's had black slats like 2002's. Plus the added 1600ti badge.

Turf is an awesome, rare color. And personally I'd take a TI over a TII any day.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FGS]

Yup. Like Toby said. The nose panel is from a later square tail car. They use different grills and kidney. 1600's have all silver grills with no slats, BUT I think 1600ti's had black slats like 2002's. Plus the added 1600ti badge.

Turf is an awesome, rare color. And personally I'd take a TI over a TII any day.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

So the issue is not just about the black grill: are you telling me that the front panel has been modified in order to fit a later grill?

Edited February 14, 2016 by FGS

[jmr_1602]

Yes. It looks like the nose panel was replaced with a later one. Early grills (the correct ones for a round tail car) do not fit in the 74-76 nose panels.

I doubt anyone changed the nose panel to fit the late (plastic) grills. Most likely the original one was too rusty or the car got in a fender bender.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited February 14, 2016 by jmr_1602

[John_in_VA]

So the issue is not just about the black grill: are you telling me that the front panel has been modified in order to fit a later grill?

 

No - this later nose uses the black plastic side grills & a different center grill vs.the original nose that used metal side grills & a different center grill.

[Conserv]

VIN 1585171 is a 1600ti manufactured during the 1968 calendar year. This is according to the BMW 2002 Club of Columbia's VIN decoder:

 

http://www.bmwclasicos.com/vin.php

 

An email to BMW Archives with the car's VIN will confirm the specific manufacturing date (info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com). The Archives response will also show the factory exterior color, which should be Turf, and should thereby help confirm that this chassis is, indeed, 1585171. There is no charge for providing the Archives data and you generally receive a response in one business day.

 

The VIN should appear: 1.) stamped into the outer upper edge of the right front inner fender; 2.) on the riveted-on metal VIN tag on the top of the right inner fender, just aft of the right upper strut mounting point; 3.) on the small riveted-on metal VIN tag on top of the steering column; and 4.) on the car's original engine block.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

Edited September 16, 2016 by Conserv

[FGS]

VIN 1585171 is a 1600ti manufactured during the 1968 calendar year. This is according to the BMW 2002 Club of Columbia's VIN decoder:

http://www.bmwclasicos.com/vin.php

An email to BMW Archives with the car's VIN will confirm the specific manufacturing date. The Archives response will also show the factory exterior color, which should be Turf, and should thereby help confirming that this chassis is, indeed, 1585171. There is no charge for providing the Archives data and you generally receive a response in one business day.

The VIN should appear: 1.) stamped into the outer upper edge of the right front inner fender; 2.) on the riveted-on metal VIN tag on the top of the right inner fender, just aft of the right upper strut mounting point; 3.) on the small riveted-on metal VIN tag on top of the steering column; and 4.) on the car's original engine block.

Regards,

Steve

 

 

Hello Steve,

 

thank you for the detailed response. So should the engine and chassis numbers be the same?

 

Francesco

[mo02]

Engine + chassis numbers are the same on a #'s matching car...so yes to answer your question.

Mo

[Conserv]

On February 15, 2016 at 2:51 AM, FGS said:

Hello Steve,

thank you for the detailed response. So should the engine and chassis numbers be the same?

Francesco

 

Francesco,

 

Mo already answered your question, and "numbers-matching" is clearly an important issue on a collectible car such as a ti. Unlike the car's current "post-'73 nosepiece" -- which can be replaced with an original-style pre-'74 nosepiece -- there is only one correct engine block!

 

The email address of BMW Archives is: info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com

 

By the way, that's a pretty special and rare steering wheel on the ti, a factory wood-rimmed version! Technically, however, I do not believe the wood-rimmed wheel was either a factory option or a factory accessory specifically for the 1600ti. I believe they were originally fitted to some 2000CS and 2000tiLux cars but they happened to also fit the 1600ti (and any 1600-2, for that matter)!

 

Good luck,

 

Steve

Edited September 16, 2016 by Conserv