Bosch Distributor Mechanical Advance Limiting Screws

['76mintgrün'02]

This was enjoyable ...

 

 

 

 

So, that's what's inside of a PerTronix.

 

 

I stuck some BBs to the ring, just to see where the magnets were.

 

 

Then drilled the pin and took it apart for cleaning, since it would need shimming anyway; seeing as how the gap is a bit on the large side; mostly due to the missing upper fiber washer.

 

 

The early style points plate is in good condition and it looks like it'd work just fine in the later style body.  I compared it to another #164 and the layout is the same.

 

EDIT-- the early and late plates do not interchange.  Early ones drop straight down and sit on a little ledge, but the late style keys into little notches that are bent into the sides of the body.  The old style is too loose in the new body.

 

 

It is all stock looking and intact on the inside.  I put it back together (loosely) and put it back on the shelf with the others.

 

 

I did a little work on the "KING" Condenser / Coil Tester today.   

 

 

I made a new coil wire to replace the brittle one and opened up the backside to remove a gauge.

 

 

The plastic cover has a thin sheet-plastic layer on the inside that is peeling off and interferes with the needle's travel.  The same is true on the other gauge too.  The problem is I cannot figure out how to take the covers off.  It looks like a press fit on a couple of splined pins, but seems pretty stuck in place.  I am afraid the plastic is brittle.  I may try heating those studs with a soldering iron, to see if they'll let go of the clear plastic side.  There is probably a trick to it, but I could not find info on the Googlenet.

 

 

This tester came with the Craigslist Sun equipment purchase, along with a little 2 amp charger.  Today I connected the charger to the 12V input wires and tried the coil tester.  I was happy to see the little electric motor spin and the points/condenser on it did their thing.  The needle moved when Juice was fed to the coil, but that plastic got in the way.

 

 

The gauge for the coil tester has two broken wires attached to the back and they must have come from that double-brown-brick 'thing' beside the clamps.

 

 

It may be a capacitor.  I suppose I should solder some new wires onto it and reinstall it.  It appears as though this tool will work, once I get the gauge plastic problem sorted out.
 

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by '76mintgrün'02

[7502]

Tom, as you surmised that last picture is mica 0.02mfd capacitor rated at 600V. You see these in old radios and other gear of the period. Unlike paper capacitors these are thought to rarely go bad and usually not replaced outright. Carefully resolder the broken connection using minimum heat trying to keep the same wire dressing and length.    As you probably know don't use acid core solder.

['76mintgrün'02]

I followed your advice, Eric and soldered new wires onto the mica capacitors so I could reinstall them and while I was at it, I soldered in new AC and DC power cords; since the old ones were crunchy. 

 

 

 

Soldering is fun and I got to use my newest old soldering gun.  

 

 

I could not figure out how to take the plastic covers off of the gauges, so I drilled a small hole at the bottom and bent some little wire hooks to be able to reach up in there and pull it out. 

 

 

 

It was quite tedious, but the needles have room to swing now.

 

 

 

While fishing around inside the coil gauge, I accidentally dislodged the wire that retains the adjustment 'screw'.  I fiddled with trying to fix it, but gave up.  I think a little piece of clear tape with a hole in it will work just fine.  Dammit.

 

I played with the coil test feature and compared some black, red and blue coils that I have on hand.  The black coi is the one that came on my car and I am currently using.  The red one showed the highest output of the three.

 

There is a knob that adjusts the gap between two electrodes and as you increase the gap, the needle moves towards zero.  It is fun to watch the little sparks span the gap through the hole in the front of the meter.

 

 

The little DC motor operates a set of points to trigger the coil.   

 

 

I used the condenser tester to check the one on that setup and it appears as though it may be a bit leaky.  I may try substituting one of the miscellaneous spares I have on hand, to see if it affects the gauge's reading.  Or not. 

 

The tester seems to work, but I don't know how accurate it is.  At least I can use it to compare the parts I have on hand.  I did look in the Blue Book today and there is information about the coil and condenser specifications... I am still trying to make sense of it.

 

Seeing that the red coil I have on hand puts out a hotter spark than the black one I am using makes it a little bit tempting to swap it in, but it requires a 1.8 ohm ballast resistor and the wire in my '76 is only .9 ohms; so I would need to deal with that.  I did pull out another meter and checked the coil's resistance, for the fun of it.  Here they are red/black/blue:

 

 

 

 

Thrill-a-minute around here... cheap thrills, thankfully.  I sure have a lot to learn.

 

Tom

 

 

['76mintgrün'02]

I am about to put this tool back on the shelf, but figured I'd share just a little more of the fun I'm having.

 

I pulled the ancient looking condenser off of my distributor for testing.

 

Leakage

 

 

Capacity  (.23 +/- .01 recommended)  ((the newest looking one in my stash of condensers is at .19))

 

 

Resistance

 

 

I put my black coil back on and took some photos of the arcing spark.  The gap needs to be near zero to get the meter in the GOOD range.  I do not have the instructions for this too, but I will try to find them online.  

 

 

 

This is the coil specifications page from my 1973 version of the Blue Book.  I don't think this tester fits with the info they provide for spark gap... and stuff.  I dunno.

 

 

Last night, I was reading a bit about the ignition system on a VW site and decided to go back to using a 'skinny tipped' rotor, instead of the wider one; so I removed .080" from the bottom, to give clearance for the thickness of the dwell-adjuster I've added.  I just use this piece of plywood and the belt sander.  The dust tastes pretty good, actually.

 

 

 

Here is a link to the VW info, much of it also applies to our cars.  https://ratwell.com/technical/IgnitionSystem.html

 

This is the part that inspired me to go back to the stock R5 rotor.  I think that is enough of this fun for now.

Which Rotor?

If you have a Bosch distributor you should be using a Bosch or Beru rotor. They are the best made parts you can buy that are not only inexpensive but well made and long lasting. Only buy a rotor from the local auto parts chain in an emergency. Better yet, carry a Bosch/Beru spare. If you have a stock ignition system your rotor is probably Bosch 04033 (or perhaps the 04016 rev limiting version). These rotors have an embedded 5 kohm resistor. The resistor serves several purposes: Limits current to reduce erosion of the spark plug electrode Reduce radio frequency interference (RFI) Works with coil to increase the burn duration of the spark Limit reverse current to protect the ignition switch If you have a CA electronic ignition system from a 79 bus the rotor will contain a 1 kohm resistor. It uses a smaller resistor because the special coil used has different primary and secondary resistances to match. If you normally required a 5 kohm resistor and switch to a lower resistance rotor you may notice a slight difference in engine firing. Compare the spark produced by the 5 kohm resistor in the first trace to the traces for a 1 kohm resistor and one that has had the resistor removed (0 kohm). The 5 kohm trace has a very sharp fall from the peak voltage required to fire the spark plug, to the burn voltage level where the bulk of the current flows. This results in the longest burning spark. As the resistance of the rotor decreases, the length of time it takes to fall from peak voltage increases and the shorter the spark. Don't try to outsmart VW/Bosch: they knew what they are doing when they specified which rotor to use. Is it ok to substitute the 1 kohm version?. I'm not sure. It may damage your Pertronix ignition because the resistor also serves to limit that current that flows in reverse when the coil collapses (maybe they've put an internal diode inside for protection). It doesn't seem to be a problem for the factory CA ignition. Did you also notice the end spike in the 1 kohm trace? That peak may be heard on your radio in which case you'll have to switch back as well.

['76mintgrün'02]

I moved the "KING"  tester to the back bench and connected it to 120/12 volts, so it is ready to go at a moments notice!!

 

Then I tested every condenser I could find and wrote the capacity on them with a little sharpie.

 

Two of the NOS condensers were in boxes that had been labeled and I was relieved to have my tester give the same numbers.  Most of them came in at .19 μF , but a couple were just over .20 .  

 

They are part number 1 237 02 090 and the box also says Exp.-No. 02 090 .  I tried looking up their specifications online... but didn't learn anything.  They are nice heavy little buggers, with the early style round plastic plug.  (a bit of the treasure from Ed's box of goodies)

 

Years ago someone posted a photo on the FAQ showing a decapitated distributor.  I wish I had saved it.  The photographer was driving down the road and the engine malfunctioned and when he looked under the hood, the body of the distributor had been sliced in half.  (He actually bought my 002 distributor as a replacement).  Ever since then I have been wondering how that could have happened and tonight I think I figured it out, while looking inside an early style distributor.  See what's happening?

 

There is a thin little friction pad on the plate under the weights and it is very common for them to break with age.  I have seen a couple different styles (materials) and some of them have a 'fabric' in their core. They resemble very thin cut off wheels

 

 

 

You can see how the weights were actually pushing the pad into the wall when they swung out and there is a noticeable slot cut in the side.  You can also see a shiny spot on the plate, made by the nub on the bottom of the weight; showing why the pad is important.

 

 

I can see how it would be possible for one to finally cut its way through.  That greasy filth is full of gray aluminum.

 

Distributor neglect is a crime !  ... but the forensics are kind of fun.

 

Tom

 

EDIT-- after cleaning this one out, the cut in the side of the body is not very deep after all.  I don't think this actually solves the mystery of the decapitated distributor.

Edited May 4, 2020 by '76mintgrün'02

[Buckeye]

2 hours ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

  They are part number 1 237 02 090 and the box also says Exp.-No. 02 090 .  I tried looking up their specifications online... but didn't learn anything.  They are nice heavy little buggers, with the early style round plastic plug.  (a bit of the treasure from Ed's box of goodies)

I came cross a capacitor with round plastic plug 3-4 years ago and it is on early distributer as you said. Usually contact breaker is on the left side on these distributors

 

2 hours ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

 

 

 

I experienced similar thing when parted one of these type distributor. Laminate in several pieces. Could not find it anywhere until came cross Glenn website. He sold me one. 

i think provided you his contact info. Do you have source for these laminate now?

Rebuilt Bosch 383 / VJ4BR25 / 010 / VJ4BR8 / 019 / VJR4BR18 / 022 / VJU4BR8 / "Big Cap" 40hp Distributors
Vintage Werks Homepage

 

http://www.glenn-ring.com/bosch/

['76mintgrün'02]

4 hours ago, Buckeye said:

I experienced similar thing when parted one of these type distributor. Laminate in several pieces. Could not find it anywhere until came cross Glenn website. He sold me one. 

i think provided you his contact info. Do you have source for these laminate now?

 

Hi Buckeye.  I remember when you sent me that information.  It happened at the very bottom of page seven of this thread.  I contacted Glen at that time and he steered me towards Stoddard Porsche parts (hi NYNick!).  I looked him up again recently and he's now over by Spokane, Washington.  The distributors on his site are eye candy!

http://www.vintagewerks.com/Distributors/dist_4_sale.html

 

Stoddard sells two styles of friction pads and list one as being for the 66-69 911 with a cast iron distributor, 

https://www.stoddard.com/sic60210000-91160210000-sic.html

 

and the other as being for the 356 and 912 distributors. 

https://www.stoddard.com/nla60210201-61660210201-nla.html

 

The second one is the one that matches the pad you got from Glen.  I've ordered a few, but am down to just one now.  I am wondering if McMaster Carr sells sheets of a similar material, because I would not be opposed to cutting them out myself.

 

 

I am trying to wrap my brain around the early style distributors' advance mechanism now.  I have two that I want to make work well.  One has the (sharp edged bottom) aluminum body and the other is cast iron.  I have not drilled the pins yet, because I am trying to learn what I can about them first.  I spun them both on the Sun and the cast iron one has a jumpy spark at idle, but very stable once the springs engage (just above idle).  The aluminum one is more stable at idle, but sticks and the advance jumps, going both up and down at the lower rpms.  It is a little tempting to shoot videos showing what I am seeing, but it's time consuming to upload to youtube and stuff and probably not that informative anyway.

 

It is interesting to try to spot the differences between the early models.  The size of the weights and springs vary and so does the style of the weights; in that some have the double thickness, with a chunk added to the top of the weight and others just have that bottom layer (weight).  The one you posted at the bottom of page 7 has the double style and the two that I will be taking apart have the smaller single weights.  Lighter weights probably use weaker springs, I'm guessing.  I've not pulled the springs to measure them yet, but can see that they are a smaller diameter.

 

Stoddard also sells some of the little early style springs, but I am not sure how they would behave.  Plus, they are sort of expensive, at $4.50 each.  I looked in the McMaster catalog, to see what sizes they sell in bulk lengths, but the O.D. that they offer is either 1/8" or 3/16" and we need sizes in between.  They don't have metric bulk extension springs.

 

They do sell spring winding tools as well as the tool to bend the loops in the ends, but they are not affordable.  I did go online and found videos of the spring loop bender in action and it is a cool little tool.

 

One of these tools sold on eBay recently for $30, but there are not any listed for sale at the moment.  New, they are around $100.  The one McMaster sells says it will do springs down to 1/8" in diameter, so that'd work for what we need.  I may try to copy the design.

 

 

5 hours ago, Buckeye said:

I came cross a capacitor with round plastic plug 3-4 years ago and it is on early distributer as you said. Usually contact breaker is on the left side on these distributors

 

These condensers are NLA.  @RAS-2002 started a thread about them a while back

 

The round plug style were used on all the old style distributors, not just the ones with points on the opposite side.  I think the 'backwards' points were used on vacuum retard units.  I have one here from a '74 that uses them... plus six or so sets of NOS Bosch points that were also in the box of treasure Ed sent me.  The orientation of the condenser mount can vary too though, so I will compare these to some others here.  You may be right about the backwards points fitment applying to these.

 

I will reread the Blue Book specifications section on condensers.  The reference I made two posts up, saying .23 μF +/- .01, was actually +/- 10%, I think.  There are other specs listed like .23 .... .32 , but I don't know what they mean by the punctuation.  I really hope that these NOS units are still good, at .19 μF.

 

Well, that took an hour to type.  I'd better start making my way towards the shop.

 

Tom

 

[zinz]

17 minutes ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

I spun them both on the Sun and the cast iron one has a jumpy spark at idle, but very stable once the springs engage (just above idle).  The aluminum one is more stable at idle, but sticks and the advance jumps, going both up and down at the lower rpms.

 

Both of those symptoms have me thinking the mechanisms are simply dirty, or the weights are slightly touching the plate.  I bet once you tear them down and clean them up, they will operate nicely.  

 

Papa and I were working on a 351 Cleveland that had gotten flooded.  We pulled the dizzy to clean it out. Papa used some oil down in the mechanism when we were done.  Some time later, that oil gunked up and kept the weights from flying out.  The truck had zero power until the revs built up enough for the weights to overcome the stickiness...then power came on like a turbo! We chased that problem a long time before figuring it out!

 

Anyways... keep up the fine work, Tom.

Ed

['76mintgrün'02]

Thanks for the input Ed... and the encouragement!  I think the sticking one will behave better after cleaning and lubrication, but the other one with bouncy timing at idle probably won't.  

 

In that post on page 7, where I dissected an early mechanism, you can see the worn pins and the slots in the weights that they fit into.  This play is not good, because the springs don't hold things tight when it is at rest, or at low rpms.

 

A close look at wear shows that this weight goes with the short pin (see the bottom of it where the worn part ends).

 

I have seen two styles of clips used to hold the early weights down.  The single layer weights use a little hairpin clip that also grabs the pin on the underside of the center post and pulls it in tight to the weight's tab.  Those wire clips cut into the pin and also tend to wear thin and break.  I have removed the points plates and reached down to try and wiggle the weights when it is in the rest position and there is much more play in the jumpy one than the sticky one.  I am guessing that the pin end of the clips is done/gone on the jumpy one.  Stoddard sells the clips, but they are slightly different and do not grab the pin.  They do work to hold the weights down though.

 

The double height weight models use a small E-clip in place of the wire.  I suspect that is a later design, hoping to eliminate hairpin clip problems.  Then they changed the whole design, going to the round bottomed style, with larger springs that do not rub on the sides of those lobes.

 

I will learn more when I drill the pins and pull the shafts.

 

It is tempting to TIG up the missing material on the pins and weights and then reshape them, but I am sure those are hardened parts.  I am not sure how long my repairs would hold up... but then, they probably won't need to last another forty years, realistically.  Or, the miles they will see in that time frame will be less than the last forty years, or any other argument that allows me to proceed is fine with me, as it beats throwing them away!

 

Tom

['76mintgrün'02]

I dissected a capacitor yesterday, using a Dremel cut-off wheel and the drill press

 

 

and then put the core on the tester

 

 

 

 

and put the specimen in a little pill bottle  

 

 

One thing I read on a VW site said that the last digits in the condensers' part numbers refers to the length of the wire.  I have not measured to test that theory.

 

Last night I noticed that the points installed in the 0231151008 distributor had been rubbing on the underside of the rotor.

 

 

I looked through my stash of old rotors and found one with a narrower base and then did some searching to see if that was the one that is supposed to go with this distributor.  I did not find anything conclusive.

 

 

The earlier cast iron distributor has a stepped shaft and it requires a rotor with a step in the bore, like the one on the left in this photo

 

 

 

I am still trying to figure out a way to dress up the worn pins and weight slots.  It is easy enough to do tiny little tig welds, but these parts are nice and hard and welding would affect that... one way or another.  I did find this little tool and it would be cool if I could weld in the divots and then run something like this down the pin to true it back up.  

 

 

The hole in this one is slightly larger though and I suspect the hard pins/welds would eat up the cutting end anyway. 

 

 

That's it for today's photo show.  I think I will cut open one of the shiny new condensers for comparison.  I'll bet it is total crap, compared to the way the one above was put together.

 

Tom

  

[Buckeye]

Tom, you should open up a youtube channel. Seriously. 

 

Farshid

['76mintgrün'02]

I've used youtube so I could post videos here.  I have a couple showing the points' dwell adjuster in action and some from when I was adding dome to the stock air cleaner lid(s).  The one I did eight years ago, when I made a tool to remove sound deadener sheets from the floor has had a lot of views, but the others only have a few.  The dwell adjuster videos are posted earlier in this thread.  

 

I don't think my channel would be "going viral".  Do we still use that phrase, or is it taboo now?

 

It is really amazing what all is available on the tube now.  I went looking at spring making videos a couple of days ago and found this one.  He's kind of funny, in a nerdy way.  (I don't think I'd enjoy talking to a camera, or being filmed).

 

Speaking of springs, McMaster sells bulk 3' lengths for $5, which is the cost of ONE spring from Stoddard.  The closest wire diameter to the early style springs is .018, which is a little thinner.  I could shorten the spring to get more tension, but that will shorten its life.  The OD of the spring is somewhat critical too and McMaster has limited offerings.

 

I made the simplest spring spinner I could come up with and spun a guitar string that I'd stripped the brass off of.  It was .018" thick wire, which is a little smaller, but I will check some other old strings I saved and see if any are thicker.  For a while, I put heavier strings on my guitar.

 

 

I kind of like this little design, because you can just move the little bar to the other side of the hole to wind left or right hand springs.

 

 

I used a drift punch to wrap the wire and after spring back it came out .004" smaller in OD than the one I was trying to copy.  If I needed to be very accurate about the OD, I could use a numbered drill as a mandrel and wrap a spring around its shank, after drilling that size hole in the aluminum and wind up one spring at a time.

 

 

 

 

These were quick and dirty attempts and I am sure that a little practice would yield more consistent coiling.

 

I know, I know.  Practicality be damned!  I am just trying to have some fun.

There, a double-dose of photos this morning.

 

Tom

['76mintgrün'02]

I've been spending some more time down in the distributor rabbit hole lately and have been taking more of them apart, for cleaning and inspection, then spinning them on the Sun to see how they behave.  I have learned a lot about some of the subtle differences between models.  So much, that it is hard to decide what to share.

 

One thing I would like to emphasize again, is that distributors require maintenance and they will wear out faster without it.  Step one is drilling out the pin, to be able to slide the shaft out.  The pins are very soft steel, so it is not hard to do.  One thing to note is that the pins are tapered and you want to drill out the smaller end.  If you look at the end of the shaft, there is a little dot stamped in it, which indicates which is the big end.  Drill out the other end. 

 

Start with a center punch to locate the middle.  If the punch is off center, steer it over until it looks right and then drill.  Sometimes it is easier to start with a smaller drill and then work up.

 

I have decided that I prefer to drill them out using a hand drill, as opposed to the drill press.  It makes it easier to steer the drill, keeping it in the middle of the pin.  I just stop often, to dust it off and see how it is going.

 

Once drilled in about 1/8" or so, it can be punched out.  You just need a little clearance around the punch, so the flared end can flex in as it gets pushed through.

 

I like to use a big hammer to push it through, so I don't have to swing it as hard

 

A simple V-block with a clearance hole for the pin is all you need to hold onto it.  It could even be made from hard wood.  (this one is aluminum)

 

As I've mentioned earlier in this thread, I like to use a roll pin to replace the original style.  It makes it really easy to get back inside for servicing in the future.  5/32" x 3/4" is a good fit and they are readily available at any decent hardware store.  Or, use a 4 mm pin.

 

So, one thing led to another and I've taken apart, cleaned and reassembled five distributors in the last few days 

 

I did that dirty looking #164 ('76 model) in the back last night.  I now have five of that model on hand!  This photo shows the one above, after cleaning it up.

 

The other four are all the earlier style, (with two being very early -- cast iron bodies). 

 

It is really interesting to try to notice the little differences between them and understand why they might be that way.  Some are earlier than others, obviously, and so I find myself wondering why they changed the design as they went.  Were they simply trying to make them less costly?  Or were they trying to address issues with how they wear?  I am guessing both things are true.  I also wonder what the trade offs are, for making them cheaper to produce.  Unfortunately, things don't necessarily improve over time.  Sometimes the old style is better!

 

I was intimidated by the old style mechanism, having only opened up a couple in the past, but I am getting more comfortable with them now and they do have some neat features.

 

Here's most of what's inside of an early vacuum retard distributor, minus the points plates.  (that is a later-early-style though, with E-clips instead of hairpins, double looped spring ends, double cut spiral shaft, stepped center post and double stacked weights)

 

This is the other 008, not the 151 008 that is the sought-after mechanical-only model.  (that one is on the far right in the group shot above)

 

One neat feature they have is the adjustable spring mounts that can be rotated to put more or less pressure on the springs, by pushing them up against the lobes. 

 

 

The shape of those lobes is part of what determines the curve and they can look quite different between models.

 

Those adjustment screws are not reachable from the outside, so you have to pull the shaft to get at them.  (IMO, they should have put a hole in the bottom of the housing for adjustment)  They have stiff little wave washers under the heads, so you can set the tension to have them movable, but still stay put while spinning; then tighten them down once you find the sweet spot.  I am going to play with that feature on the Sun machine and plot the difference it makes in the curve.

 

Somebody tried to take a shortcut with the spring adjustment on one of the ones I disassembled, by bending the tabs instead of moving them over.  Bad bad bad.  I've bent tabs in the later style, but that's different !   

 

 

That was inside of the vacuum advance cast iron one.  I've now taken two of the old ones apart.  

 

Somebody recently asked "what's special about the old cast iron ones?" and that's exactly what I am trying to figure out.

 

Tom

[Deilke53]

Wow Tom you are waay into it this:)

 

That "friction pad" material you are talking about is called Phenolic.  Widely available, you should be able to order some from McMaster or Amazon or Laird plastic. Get some and PM me, I'll waterjet you a lifetime supply of those for free to a fellow Washingtonian.

 

I was going down this rabbit hole the day looking through a box of  distributors  and did a quick calculation on how much of a variable their end play is.  For those who have never given it any thought..I was surprised, it is actually kind of significant. For example that distributor you show needing a washer, I would say that's  about 1mm of end play (0.040") which I think is common since three out my 10 distributors have that much or more.  Well, believe it or not that 1mm of end play works out to 10+ degrees of crank rotation.

 

But, maybe that play makes no difference in real world driving situations??

 

PS Always wondered why they reversed rotation on the e21 dizzys..any ideas??

 

the short math: cam shaft and distributor shaft are offset  by about about 22mm and their gears are identical .  That means their effective gear diameter is also 22mm and therefore circumference is 69mm.  With screw type gears of equal diameter and 45degree teeth, 1mm of end play equals 1mm segment of that 69mm circumference.  

1/ 69 equals 0.0145.  0.0145 x 360deg equals 5.22degrees.  crank-cam relationship is 2:1     So, over 10 degrees at the crank. 

    

 

SHaftplay.webp

['76mintgrün'02]

Water jet?  Now we're talkin'... have I got a list for you!

 

I looked up the sheet stock the other day, in my old paper McMaster catalog and can get sheets a foot square for ~ $5.  That's about the cost of one pad.  They have many materials to choose from, but it gets narrowed down when you want 1/32" thick stuff.  That's the thinnest they have.

 

Their bulk spring lengths for    ~ $5 per 3' chunk   seem affordable too, since that's the cost of one little spring.

 

They also have shim washers in packs of 50 in sizes comparable to the ones in the kits.
I have not looked for the fiber washers yet, but I'll bet they have something that'd work well.

Roll pins in bulk would be super cheap.

 

I could have fun putting a little order together for them... but   I   am super cheap.

Hence, I'm spinning used guitar strings into distributor springs.

Now I'm looking for something to do with all the pretty bronze windings...

E-string distributor springs!

 

I'd like to add some music wire to my order.

Some for spinning springs and some for making the hairpin clips.

 

Water jet.  He said water jet.  Will it cut metal too?

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, Deilke53 said:

For example that distributor you show needing a washer, I would say that's  about 1mm of end play (0.040") which I think is common since three out my 10 distributors have that much or more.  Well, believe it or not that 1mm of end play works out to 10+ degrees of crank rotation.

 

But, maybe that play makes no difference in real world driving situations??

 

 

Axial play shows up under the timing light as a bouncing mark on the flywheel.  Meaning, if you are setting timing with the light and looking at a line on the flywheel, it will be moving back and forth.  Shimming the play out reduces that.

 

As for actual driving situations, I would think it would be amplified, by the revving up and down of the engine.  It's hard to see that happen looking through the bellhousing, because the mark goes away with the changing rpm.

 

The distributor tester doesn't show it, obviously, since it isn't gear driven. It clamps on the neck of the body and holds the gear in the chuck, so you can lift and lower the body to take up that slack. 

 

I really enjoyed reading your explanation of the relationships of the two gears and how that translates to timing.  It took a few tries, but it made my brain feel good in the end.

 

 

44 minutes ago, Deilke53 said:

PS Always wondered why they reversed rotation on the e21 dizzys..any ideas??

 

They switched the rotation direction in 1981.  Isn't that also when they stopped using points and went electronical.

 

Someone here recently said that they changed the direction to keep people from sticking old distributors in the new engines.  I forget who said it though.

 

I have one of those backwards distributors here too, thanks to Toby; but that's a rabbit hole for another day.

Tom