Battery Drain!

[S-L]

So let me lay out some history with this problem. Just about a month ago, my battery kept draining. After some looking around, it turned out the seals on the alternator were broken (not allowing the alternator to turn/rotate the belt on startup because the alternator was so loose and moving around with the broken/squashed seals). I had already picked up a used alternator from another 2002, so was sort of at split roads — should I swap the seals into my original one and use the rest of the life it has or swap in the new used one (which I don't know the health of). I decided to swap seals, use original one meanwhile keeping the other one as a spare. Problem solved, we're running again. I recently purchased some new brighter & stronger headlights (since mine were giving out within time anyways). I went with the praised HELLA Vision Plus Halogen Conversion Headlamp 12V 60/55W (HB2) headlights. After receiving, simply connected the old wire back to the headlights and popped them back in. On my drive home from the coast the next day, my lights were working nicely and strongly (very impressed). Once I had arrived, turned off my engine. When I went to start it back up, dead. Nothing. I was sort of confused, since 60/55W is what can be used on my stock '76 without relays (from what I understand). Now, everytime I need to drive — need a jump start. I let it charge for a good 10 minutes off my other sedan, and without the lights on it seemed to startup next time if I made sure not to turn on my headlights. But if it's a quick jumpstart, it'll be dead next time you're starting it. I've been told it can't be the alternator instead an exposed wire, while some say it's the alternator going bad.

What are my first steps? Can someone give me a direction of where I should get started?

 

Sorry for the rant, hope someone can help me on here. Many thanks!..,

Edited October 17, 2019 by slaviklungu
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['76mintgrün'02]

A while back, someone on here posted a technique they used to isolate a short in the electrical system.  What they did was to disconnect the ground strap from the battery and put a test light between the strap and the battery.  If the light comes on, you have a + short to ground somewhere.  To isolate the short, you pull one fuse at a time, to see if the light goes out.  If it does go out, the problem is on the circuit that is fed through that fuse.  I am not sure whether this will help if your problem is with the alternator, but it should tell you whether it has to do with the headlights.  Something to try anyway.  

 

Tom

[snowy]

That is a great test Mintgrun! I could never trace my short. My battery held up ok once charged but if I left The battery connected overnight by next morning , no start. I'm not that good on electrics (getting better ) so I just put in a battery switch, which is handy for working on the car. That's the first test I will be doing when I finish the paint.

[burndog]

This is probably an isolated problem that I found, but the PO had inserted a relay into the ignition circuit. Once I turned off the ignition the relay seemed to stay somewhat energized and the battery would slowly depleat after extended nonuse (5-7 days).

[TobyB]

Start with a voltmeter...

 

By 'seals', do you mean the bushings that isolate it?

 

The voltmeter will tell all- if you have 14+v running , you're charging.

If you're below 13.6, you're not.

If it drops below 12.6 in a few minutes after you switch off, you probably have a bad battery.

If it doesn't, use Tom's drain test.

The alternator itself can drain a battery if a diode gets leaky.

But your headlight change would lead me to think something in that

circuit might be at fault- the voltmeter and the test lamp will help you there.

 

Buy Rob's electrical book

 

Live long and prosper.

 

t

 

[roadhog0]

First I'm going to ask the same as Toby, Seals? Explain.

 

Next, I'm gonna say the same as Toby (ASSUMING you connected the alternator charge wire, voltage regulator, and ground strap back up after you installed the alternator) get a multimeter out and check if it's charging or not, then go from there!

[Chris_B]

What you need to do is, if you don't have one, buy or borrow a multimeter. Put your meter in ammeter mode, disconnect the + cable on the battery, and put the meter in series between the cable and the + post on the battery. Observe the reading. Normal for an 02 should be in the substantially less than 100 milliamp range. Note that most meters are only good to about an amp draw before they will blow the internal fuse, and better meters will have a 10 amp connection. It is hard to imagine that you could have an open circuit on an 02 that would run your battery down overnight. As Toby said, you will need to determine the charge state of your battery before even bothering with all of this. If not at ~12.6V at rest (i.e., key out of ignition), then you have a problem with your charging system or battery. You might want to see

 

Sorry about the above- was just trying to insert a link.

[xferboy]

Before you insert your meter in amp mode in the circuit, may I suggest: (for the meter/fuse's safety)

 

Remove the + lead from the battery (you could do - it doesn't matter for this)

In the lowest resistance setting (200, 20, etc not K ohm), measure the resistance from the just removed + lead (NOT the battery +) to the - post/lead

from there you can estimate* the current draw (12/R = I) to see if inserting the meter in the circuit  will blow the fuse in the meter.

 

I usually do this measurement before I re-connect a battery in a car, in case I shorted something.  I have the battery in the trunk with a disconnect switch, so measure from the underhood distribution block to a known good ground before turning on the battery disconnect.

 

You could leave it this way and pull fuses to see when the resistance goes up.  If I remember correctly, with the key off, my 73 tii (clock out of the car**) has high K ohm, maybe even low Megaohm ....

 

just some random thoughts.  Hope that helps

 

Allan

 

*let the meter 'settle' down while reading the resistance.  Charging of capacitors, energizing of coils, etc can have the initial setting lower or higher. 

 

** If I remember the internals of the non-quartz clock, once it winds down, contacts close and activate a something (coil of some sort) that gives it a little wind (opening the contact), which starts the whole process over until the contacts close again.  Your meter probably (shouldn't) source enough current in resistance mode to wind the clock again, thus leaving the contacts closed giving a false low resistance  of the coil inside the clock (in theory anyway, while I drink a beer and watch a crappy version of Godzilla)

[Chris_B]

Good advice, although there aren't many capacitors or coils to be energized in an 02.Further, a dead short in an 02 will likely blow a fuse or fry some wiring.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Chris_B

[S-L]

Got some readings from a voltmeter, approximatly 12.2 with car running. 12.0 seconds after car is off. Oh, and before the readings, I popped in another used 2002 alternator. Same issue, except worse. I know have a "L" light that shines brightly when the car is off and keys out of ignition. I'm desperate at this point. Any pointers?

[Pierre]

12.2V  while running means you are not charging,  It's probably your voltage regulator since replacing alternators is not making a difference.

 

[peterschop]

Do you have a ground wire on the alternator? If not, it will not charge.

[roadhog0]

9 hours ago, peterschop said:

Do you have a ground wire on the alternator? If not, it will not charge.

 

Was about to repeat saying this. Ground wire is important!

[xferboy]

On 2016-04-16 at 11:32 PM, Chris_B said:

although there aren't many capacitors or coils to be energized in an 02

Yup, but for the sake of transferable skills (or cars), I still do it.

 

For interest, when using the load tester for V measurements, were you applying a load, or was that a no load reading?  if no load 12.2 is low.

[Hans]

I'd be looking for at least 13.5 running, 12 and a bit off. Voltage regulator should cut at 14.