other What's It Worth?

[nobbyv]

Hi guys,

New here. I've owned a number of BMWs before, but nothing vintage. The 2002 has really caught my eye, and I went and looked at one today. But I'm having trouble putting a realistic value on it as is. I was hoping for some input. 

 

Basic specs:

1972 2002 Tii (verified by VIN)

4-speed 

151k

 

The good:

Inka Orange (!!!)

Sunroof (operational)

Matching numbers engine

Car is "complete": no major missing parts (except one front bumper overrider)

 

The bad:

Hasn't run since '94 (owner had it stored inside).

Owner claims engine isn't seized, but had no battery and he wouldn't let me hook up a jumper pack to try cranking it

Interior is junk: cracked dash, no carpets, seats all need reupholstering

Owner sprayed most exterior trim black (poorly) for some reason

Non-original wheels

 

Now, most of the above factors don't worry me too much. The engine and interior work are all fairly straightforward. What I struggle with more is putting an estimate on what it would take to correct the last issue:

 

Rust/body (of course)

Overall, I would actually say the car is actually in decent shape as far as rust, but obviously there's some. I took 25+ pics, and am including a few select ones here. The major rust areas are:

1) Driver's floor. Rusted through. The "channel" that runs under the floor (some sort of reinforcement I assume?) actually looked OK, but the top floor metal is gone. To me, that *seems* like a relatively easy fix for someone competent

2) Passenger's floor/footwell. Rusted through, and then cut out and patched by the owner with fiberglass. The repair looks "solid enough", but obviously isn't the "right" way to do it. I'm probably not looking to do a concours-quality restoration, but I at least want to have that option. The fiberglass would have to go. 

3) Front shock towers. Passenger side looked OK (owner has sanded down some surface rust and then hit it with some Wurth rust stop primer). Driver's side has a small area where it's rusted through. I gather this is relatively common, but seems like fixing it correctly would be a pain. 

4) Rear shock towers/inside wheel wells. Passenger side had some rust, which again the owner cut out and glassed. Driver's side has some rust, including a pinhole, and is unrepaired.

5) Front clip. Relatively rust free aside from some on the underside of the hood front lip. But the owner hit a deer, and replaced some of the front pieces. The work seems to be "OK": some of the bolts and fasteners are mis-matched. The owner did mention he replaced the front fenders and doors with pieces from a '74. He also made reference to having "filled the interior of the door panels with epoxy to make them sound more "solid" when he shut the doors". Overall, kind of hack-y. Driver's door didn't shut quite right, and was also quite wavy. 

 

There are plenty of other relatively minor rust issues. Most appear to be surface rust. 

 

I'm just not sure where to value this car. Obviously, it's the "right" year, and has the right options. My gut says it's a salvageable car (though I'm not sure I'm the guy to salvage it). 

 

What do you guys think? He says he wants $10k. If I could have gotten it for $6k I would have jumped on it, but I'm thinking of passing on this car. 

 

 

 

 

[John_in_VA]

14 minutes ago, nobbyv said:

What do you guys think? He says he wants $10k. If I could have gotten it for $6k I would have jumped on it, but I'm thinking of passing on this car.

I've seen photos of extreme work performed by members here, but that doesn't look like something that I'd pay $2002 for.  You might have the skills, time, & $$ to make it nice.

[Buckeye]

search for another 2002 car will go on if it was me. unless you are equipped and skilled like 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2016 by Buckeye

[jerry]

this car's got to come down to the bones to fix.  even to fix halfway you'd be better off removing engine, suspension and interior to get at the rusty bits.  if you can get it for $1800 or less, the parts could be sold to recoup your fee if you give up.  it is a worthy cause to save it...

 

(easy for me to say from the comfort of my easy-chair)

[Conserv]

Assume that 100% of the fiberglass and bondo "repairs" are not repairs at all, but rather, are simply "covers" hiding the full extent of the rust -- which I'll bet remains active under the fiberglass and bondo.  That said, the car has rust in a lot of places.  And every repair shown in your photos needs to be re-repaired: none appears to have been done by a remotely-competent repairman.  Nonetheless, anything is repairable if you have the time, skills, and/or money to repair it.

 

If this were not a round taillight tii in a desirable color with a factory sunroof, I would say "Run".  But if you really want a round taillight tii, with matching numbers, in a great color, with a factory sunroof -- and you either know how to repair rusty panels or are willing to pay someone to repair rusty panels, I'd say the value is between $2,500 and $5,000, unless the car is California, Arizona, etc., where its value would be $2,500 or less -- I have seen worse examples sell for nearly $5,000 within the last year, but those were in the East and in Canada (where buyers are more...desperate, because low-rust cars are virtually non-existent).

 

If I had to guess, I'd bet you'll spend $7,500 to $15,000 more repairing this car's rust when compared to a truly low rust example, so factor that into your calculations.  If a "low rust" version of this car is available -- easier to dream of than to actually find -- you're possibly better off financially paying $15,000 for that example than paying $2,500 to $5,000 for this example.  On the other hand, some car restorers really LIKE bringing a car back "from the brink"!

 

So....is this your dream '02?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2016 by Conserv

[pklym]

Hard pass.

$2-3k is where I would draw the line (on the west coast) and that's assuming you can at least do much of the body work.

 

It seems like the only thing it has going for it is the title/paperwork

Edited September 6, 2016 by pklym

[AceAndrew]

I'd be tempted to buy it only if to take a picture of the "epoxy filled" door panels. ..... 

 

Run, run and don't look back.  I highly suggest you find some restoration quotes from respected shops prior to pulling the finger on any "project car" that you wont be repairing the rust personally.

[nobbyv]

Thanks for the input guys. I forgot to mention the hilarious part, given the "quality" of the repairs done: the owner apparently owned an auto body shop. It was closed 20 years ago, which isn't too surprising if he was "repairing" other cars in similar fashion. 

 

As much as this is the "perfect" car for me as far as options/color goes, I'm going to pass on it. 

[echappe]

The only option is to find a rust free shell from the southwest and transfer the pedigree to it

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, nobbyv said:

Thanks for the input guys. I forgot to mention the hilarious part, given the "quality" of the repairs done: the owner apparently owned an auto body shop. It was closed 20 years ago, which isn't too surprising if he was "repairing" other cars in similar fashion. 

 

As much as this is the "perfect" car for me as far as options/color goes, I'm going to pass on it. 

 

Good move.  By the by, as you -- hopefully -- continue to search for the right car, rust-through on the FRONT strut towers is not at all common and is generally symptomatic of the worst rust cases.

 

Not to scare you but to educate you, you should probably take a look at forum member stymee's blog:

 

 

It shows both (a.) how unrelentingly-pervasive rust can be on a car that, at first glance, looks gorgeous; and (b.) how said car can be restored given an enormous number of man hours -- in this case largely by the owner.

 

Good luck with you hunt,

 

Steve

 

Edited September 6, 2016 by Conserv

[dang]

You're getting good advice so far.  Move on and don't think about it as a lost opportunity.  Its a parts car that someone might bring back to life if they have the talent and/or money but it doesn't make sense to most of us.

[Preyupy]

It looks to me like the restoration costs on this car will be at a MINIMIUM what the car would be worth once finished.  You will easily spend $30-35,000 to restore this car and if you are lucky it will be worth that when you finish it.  What ever you would pay for it will be easily money over and above the value when finished.  You would be money and time ahead to just find a restored roundie Tii and BUY IT if you are willing to spend $35,000 on a Tii. 

[ray_]

Take the clock, and then run away.

 

:-)

[BarneyT]

some just cant be saved, you need to start with a better shell than this to be happy in the long run...

[Conserv]

2 hours ago, barney t said:

some just cant be saved, you need to start with a better shell than this to be happy in the long run...

 

Well, Barney,

 

I would probably word this differently, I would say "some just can't be saved without enormous effort or money" and I'd avoid the happiness thing as one person's nightmare project can be tremendously satisfying for another person.

 

In the '02 world, I generally point to stymee's blog about his 1972 tii:

 

I believe stymee's car was considerably worse than the Inka tii at the heart of this present thread -- I could be wrong -- but stymee, largely through his own labor, is rebuilding his car panel by panel.  Granted, such restorations require enormous time and/or energy and perhaps a broader definition of "restoration".  (I always think of the story line "This was my grandfather's hammer and it has great sentimental value to me.  Sure, the head and handle were replaced over the years, but it was my grandfather's hammer!")

 

Had I more time, or talent, or money, I, personally, love the idea of saving a car that most would characterize as "too-far gone" so I am hesitant to tell anyone not to take on the most Herculean of tasks -- but eager to point out instances where a Herculean effort might be required!

 

I have certainly seen far worse cars than this Inka tii brought back to concours condition.  It's not everyone's cup of tea -- and the hours or dollars rarely make financial sense -- but it can be a rewarding process.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited September 6, 2016 by Conserv