other 1972 BMW 2000tii Touring Alpina on BaT

[Conserv]

41 minutes ago, saaron said:

Sorry Steve, I took BAT at their word.  I didn't dig into the images of the docs at all.  I figured BAT would have the story straight since they are auctioning the car.  

 

via the BAT description:  "Chamonix is believed to have been the original color as evidenced by the paint sticker under the chassis tag. The car was repainted silver metallic by Alpina as shown on the invoice, which was a 442 deutsche mark line item."

 

One of the BAT commenters said that the spare tire well showed signs of being white, but it looks Polaris to me.  But it's a picture on the internet, so who really knows.  

 

It takes a team of people in real life to fact-check all the things I say.  I don't feel picked on at all.  

 

Scott

 

Thanks, Scott,

 

Yes, they (a.) assumed the pristine Chamonix sticker on top of the 2006 repaint was an original sticker, (b.) didn't look closely at all the documents shown, (c.) didn't know that metallic paint was an optional-cost extra throughout the '02 era, and $175 on U.S. cars in 1972, (d.) didn't consider that DM 442 equaled approximately $130 dollars -- less than the usual metallic paint upgrade, and (e.) looked at a photo of the trunk and assumed the white-ish central rail must be Chamonix paint that no one remembered to paint over.

 

I just pulled up photos of my born-Polaris '76, currently torn apart for painting, to see that my passenger-side seat mounts look absolutely Chamonix in the first photograph below -- but they are clearly Polaris in the second photo.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

Edited September 15, 2016 by Conserv

[saaron]

If internet pictures are leading car people to experience difficulties, I'm glad I'm not on dating sites...

 

Good luck on your re-paint.  That's a whole thing.

 

Scott

[02Les]

Ok, everyone has an opinion, so here's mine.

The Alpina invoice includes the cost of the car, so, it appears Alpina purchased the car from BMW, and it arrived at Alpina with tinted windows, sunroof, silver (Polaris) metallic paint, black standard upholstery and, maybe, the 5 speed; the extra cost of these items is shown They also paid the transportation from BMW Munich to their factory. The rest of the invoice covers the additional work done by Alpina.

Edited September 15, 2016 by 02Les
added text

[saaron]

That sounds right to me - it completely makes sense.  

 

The invoice is showing the price of the car, breaking out the price of the options it has in the process, and then the work/parts that Alpina is doing.

 

It is the most thorough way to do it, and it minimizes confusion on the part of the customer - here's what Alpina is doing to the car vs. here's what the car already has.  If I really think about it, if the buyer was in the US, and they were buying an existing car in Germany, it seems likely the buyer never physically saw the car until it was shipped to him.  So the invoice really needed to spell everything out - "here's what you're getting, and here's what you're paying for."  Really interesting those docs still exist...very cool.  

 

Scott

 

PS   It does look like it came from BMW w/the 5 speed.

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, 02Les said:

Ok, everyone has an opinion, so here's mine.

The Alpina invoice includes the cost of the car, so, it appears Alpina purchased the car from BMW, and it arrived at Alpina with tinted windows, sunroof, silver (Polaris) metallic paint, black standard upholstery and, maybe, the 5 speed; the extra cost of these items is shown They also paid the transportation from BMW Munich to their factory. The rest of the invoice covers the additional work done by Alpina.

 

Ahhh.  Yet another rational being...

 

Thank you, Les!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited September 15, 2016 by Conserv

[02Anders]

Okay, we need to know beyond a shadow of a doubt!
So I've written a email to our friends at BMW Archive.  We obviously won't receive an answer during the weekend, but hopefully they'll come back to me before the auction ends with the colour the touring was delivered in and date of production...

[tjones02]

3 hours ago, 02Anders said:

Okay, we need to know beyond a shadow of a doubt!
So I've written a email to our friends at BMW Archive.  We obviously won't receive an answer during the weekend, but hopefully they'll come back to me before the auction ends with the colour the touring was delivered in and date of production...

I know the seller and informed him of contacting the BMW Classic Archive. He thanked me for the info and said he'll do it.

[Son of Marty]

On 9/14/2016 at 7:25 AM, tim355 said:

Very cool car but I think the best part of Alpina modified cars are the engine upgrades (including the fuel injection set-up with the red air horns)

While the engine parts are sexy the suspension complete from Alpina more than carry's it half of the load and I dare say would be harder to duplicate today with their negative camber struts going for more than 5 grand a set and who knows what the disk set up would get if you could find one and when was last time a 75% LSD came on the market, Boy I'd give this car a home in a minute but my Lotto ticket seems to be defective

[Conserv]

Dear Mr Cappel,

Thank you for your email.

The BMW 2002 tii Touring VIN 3423293 was manufactured on May 16th, 1972 and delivered on May 18th, 1972 to the BMW dealer Bovensiepen in Buchloe, Germany. The original colour was Polaris metallic, paint code 060. The car was equipped with a sun roof. 
   
We hope this information is helpful for you.

Julia Oberndörfer

-- 
BMW Group
Julia Oberndörfer
Archiv, Sammlung, Classic Brand Management  
AK-50
Historischer Informationsdienst
Moosacher Straße 66
80809 München

Postanschrift:
80788 München

Tel: +49-89-382-68281
Fax: +49-89-382-24765
Mail: julia.oberndoerfer@bmwgroup.com
Web: http://www.bmwgroup.com

 

 

 

That settles it.  If you subscribed to the ridiculous Chamonix-painted-Polaris-by-Alpina-for-$128 hysteria -- which required one to ignore most evidence and suspend all common sense -- I will NEVER hire you as my defense attorney!

 

I would, however, be happy to buy you a beer and talk cars.

 

(Two notes regarding Archive's response.  They refer to the car as a 2002tii.  Is that a typo or do they refer to all of these 2000tii tourings in this manner to avoid confusion with the 2000tii sedan?  Second, I've never seen evidence previously that Archives' data included the presence or absence of a sunroof.  Here there must have been a notation in the files.)

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Conserv

[Mike_R]

When is the price going to skyrocket?

 

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, Mike_R said:

When is the price going to skyrocket?

 

 

Wondering the same thing...

 

Late?  Never?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[saaron]

1 hour ago, Mike_R said:

When is the price going to skyrocket?

 

 

Based on the last few, it will be in the last minute, or in the case of the last tii on BAT which sold for $17k or so, it will fizzle.  

 

Scott

[02Anders]

Indeed Steve, I too received the same answer from BMW Classic Archive today.
I have just posted an update on BaT, so both the owner and also any potential bidders can be properly informed...

[02Anders]

Okay, so for starters I sadly don't have the spare cash to be bidding on this great little touring.  Just so we're clear about that.
But allow me to dream for a while...

Let's just say I ended with the winning bid.

What would i then do??  - I mean besides dancing the jig in pure joy...  

Well, I would start off by getting the car back to all Polaris.  Those anthracite lower sides just don't look right to me.
Correct door mirrors, engine bay stickers and windshield wipers in stainless steel would also sit high on the to-do-list.
But what then...??

I mean at this point I would have a rather unique and very historically important piece of Alpina history in my garage.  And well documented too!
A true collectors item, which clearly needs to be preserved as is right??
Hmmmm... therein lies the problem!
Because with Alpina's beautifully balanced suspension set-up with negative camber front struts and all, quick steering box, those awesome disc brakes front and rear, 75% LSD and of course also the 5-speed dogleg, this sweet little 02 is just screaming out for more power.  Temptation to start collecting all the right bits to build an authentic A4S spec engine would simply be quite unbearable!!  Ohhhh... how awesome would that not be?  Perhaps add to that a set of period Recaro Ideal S front seats, and at least from a drivers perspective, this would quite frankly be the ultimate road-going Buchloe package you could possibly dream up.  Heh... but then that all-important documentation would of course no longer be true to the cars current spec.  From a historical point of view - and a collectors point of view too - it would be ruining this rarest of rare Alpinas.
So what would you do??
 

[Conserv]

2 hours ago, 02Anders said:

Okay, so for starters I sadly don't have the spare cash to be bidding on this great little touring.  Just so we're clear about that.
But allow me to dream for a while...

Let's just say I ended with the winning bid.

What would i then do??  - I mean besides dancing the jig in pure joy...  

Well, I would start off by getting the car back to all Polaris.  Those anthracite lower sides just don't look right to me.
Correct door mirrors, engine bay stickers and windshield wipers in stainless steel would also sit high on the to-do-list.
But what then...??

I mean at this point I would have a rather unique and very historically important piece of Alpina history in my garage.  And well documented too!
A true collectors item, which clearly needs to be preserved as is right??
Hmmmm... therein lies the problem!
Because with Alpina's beautifully balanced suspension set-up with negative camber front struts and all, quick steering box, those awesome disc brakes front and rear, 75% LSD and of course also the 5-speed dogleg, this sweet little 02 is just screaming out for more power.  Temptation to start collecting all the right bits to build an authentic A4S spec engine would simply be quite unbearable!!  Ohhhh... how awesome would that not be?  Perhaps add to that a set of period Recaro Ideal S front seats, and at least from a drivers perspective, this would quite frankly be the ultimate road-going Buchloe package you could possibly dream up.  Heh... but then that all-important documentation would of course no longer be true to the cars current spec.  From a historical point of view - and a collectors point of view too - it would be ruining this rarest of rare Alpinas.
So what would you do??
 

 

And I am also NOT a bidder here, Anders,

 

I'd grind off that $128 Polaris metallic full-body paint job and make that baby Chamonix!  Wait. What? I shouldn't do that?  OK! ☺️

 

I would probably do exactly what you plan to do, Anders, but without any talk of the A4S engine mods for this particular car.  A tii engine is a wonderful thing and I could live with 130 hp and the wonderful suspension and brakes, given how close the car remains to its as-delivered specs.  I'd probably, however, add a set of the Ideal S seats for driving -- because it's just 4 bolts per seat to swap back the originals!

 

As to those aluminum intake runners, I'd be tempted to revert to plastic intake runners -- yes, I realize this is a large, pain-in-the-butt project, taking the car back to an inferior technology -- unless...I said, unless...those aluminum runners had casting dates of May 1972 or older!  (This car falls close to the cusp.  U.S.-spec tii's began the conversion to aluminum runners with VIN 2761944, which would have been a June 1972 car, but I don't dismiss the idea that some aluminum runners may pre-date June 1972.)

 

Ahhh, to dream!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited September 19, 2016 by Conserv