other 1972 BMW 2000tii Touring Alpina on BaT

[conkitchen]

 

3 hours ago, 02Anders said:

I guess I just don't understand the market.  

 

2 hours ago, saaron said:

 

I'm with you, there.  I can never predict prices, or what "the market" will want, or not want.  

 

 

On any given day there may or may not be the right buyer, obviously. Take Grover's Sahara 2002, neither a tii, Alpina, factory turbo, just a custom built street car with an S14 block (not the head) with Itb's. Sold for 49K+5% on BAT. Nice car, needed some attention, not a concourse example yet it sold that week for big money. My car, A very clean straight and rust free 74 tii (call it a tribute) running factory turbo systems plus many modified upgrades sold for $36K with the reserve being met by BAT. Car was a complete rebuild with a chassis clean enough to almost eat off of. If you wanted a real turbo in this condition it would have been north of $90K. So the question I had was. Would a non-turbo modified 74 tii in the same condition sell for more? Are buyers looking for modified cars which represent a higher level of customized street-ability and/or are the purists only looking for true and close to stock "investment" grade cars. Where should the middle ground be for average and respectable driver cars? All in all the values seem to be on the rise for real good examples. However the problem is that all the bottom feeders and yahoos with crappy cars take notice of auction prices and apply the increased value metric across the board. Free market society I suppose. 

 

Off my soap box. 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2016 by conkitchen

[02Anders]

3 hours ago, Conserv said:

Anders,

 

I certainly agree with everything you have said, and I strongly believe that the same car, were it NOT the touring version, would have brought a substantially greater price on BAT!  I'm certain I will bring the touring advocates down upon me, but I believe tourings are an...acquired taste, one many of us have not yet acquired!

 

From my perspective, I will probably never be able to find a set of those Borrani-manufactured Alpina rims, thanks largely to this listing.  I've been looking for a set for years and virtually to the person, people to whom I show photos, say "meh"!  Now they're seen in full context and they've become "wow"! 

 

Maybe I should add in a message, to discourage others with respect to the rims:

 

Look, '02 owners, these are puny little 5 1/2" x 13" rims.  Your car will slide off the road at the first turn.  Be smart: buy some 7" x 15" rims so kids don't make fun of you, "Hey, Mr. Little Wheels.  Love your clown car!"  And rubber?  They are 5 1/2" wide; my hand-push lawnmower has wider rims.  185/70 is the right size! What's available in 185/70-13? Michelin XWX.  $440 a pop at Coker.  So look, if you come across a set of these once-terribly-boring rims, call me.  I'll put you into something far sexier!  We can make a deal.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Steve,

 

If only you could get that message across to every 02 enthusiast worldwide!  Maybe - just maybe - you and I could both end up with a set of bi-metal Borrani wheels.
I currently have 28 different sets of period 13" wheels in my rather obsessive collection of 02 wheels!!  Yet, I would quite happily give up 20 of those sets if I could just get a set of those Borrani's...

 

As for the tourings.  Yes, they probably are an acquired taste.  Personally I think they're awesome.  I still miss the Colorado '72 BMW 1600 touring which I foolishly sold about 18 years ago...

 

3 hours ago, saaron said:

 

I'm with you, there.  I can never predict prices, or what "the market" will want, or not want.  

 

I'm not sure Tourings are hated here.  There are a few really beautiful ones owned by people on this board.  I think they are neat because of their rarity and uniqueness.  You might have a point about selling it in Germany.  I know even less about what enthusiasts there want, though.  

 

Scott 

 

 

 

 

Scott,

 

I realise that there are indeed some very good looking touring in the US too.  Thankfully not everybody is a hater...  
None the less, I believe the touring is generally better received here in Europe than it is in the US.
As for what the market wants, it seems that the classics that reach proper top-money in Germany are all about originality, authenticity and documentation.  There's of course always an exception to the rule, but this seems to be the trend.

[AceAndrew]

Something that bears repeating again and again.

 

There is an influx of buyers who are willing to shell out big bucks for a WELL-DONE 2002 hotrod.  Not a pure original car, not a car with "alpina-heritage", but a car that is clean, well-done, classy, and FUN.  As mentioned, regardless of personal feelings, the 02 hatch is seen as an odd-duck.  Original cars, heritage cars, will still bring in decent money, but they wont be at the sharp point of this growing trend.

 

I've been in many conversations just in the last couple months with many collectors who have tons of rare metal, and when the conversation shifts to the little '02 the result is always the same.  Being "rare" or "collectible" for an 02 sounds a bit contradictory to it's original intent of being "practical fun" (as recently reiterated by Mr. Seinfield).

 

Bottom feeders will always be bottom feeders, and therefor relatively easy to spot.  Even by a newcomer.

 

Edited September 21, 2016 by AceAndrew

[saaron]

1 hour ago, conkitchen said:

My car, A very clean straight and rust free 74 tii (call it a tribute) running factory turbo systems plus many modified upgrades sold for $36K with the reserve being met by BAT. Car was a complete rebuild with a chassis clean enough to almost eat off of. If you wanted a real turbo in this condition it would have been north of $90K.

 

THAT car was amazing.  I didn't know what it sold for.  Someone got a bargain, I think.  That would have been an awesome car to drive - if it was mine I would drive it all the time!  Jeez $36k.  Wow.

 

I was surprised about the Sahara's price on the one hand, on the other hand that Malaga car had sold for $70k prior to that, and the Sahara car seemed to be a similar concept.  So I thought "maybe it will go for a lot, too."  Which is proving Ace Andrew's point.  It's kind of like "move in condition" renovated homes vs. similar homes that need a little updating.  If you have the money, you don't want to screw around with fixing things.  Same with the car - you want to get a sweet, nicely done, all finished car, drive it to cars and coffee, and put picture of it on Facebook.  And 02s are plentiful enough that you don't feel like you are "ruining" anything valuable when you buy a hotrodded car.  

 

It's kind of fascinating.  A far cry from when I bought mine.  

 

Scott

 

 

[saaron]

1 hour ago, AceAndrew said:

There is an influx of buyers who are willing to shell out big bucks for a WELL-DONE 2002 hotrod.  Not a pure original car, not a car with "alpina-heritage", but a car that is clean, well-done, classy, and FUN.  As mentioned, regardless of personal feelings, the 02 hatch is seen as an odd-duck.  Original cars, heritage cars, will still bring in decent money, but they wont be at the sharp point of this growing trend.

 

What are these folks like - I picture they love cars in general, and like to get one, own it for a bit, then move on to what is hot next.  Most of us on FAQ seem to be fairly besotted with the 02.  But I have certainly met people over the years that respect the 02, want to own one for a spell, then move on to the next thing they would like to have.  Those folks usually have more cars, too, that they are slowly turning over.  Kind of like me and guitars and amps.

 

Scott

[maharaja]

The Touring is sort of similar to the 911 Targa. 

[Conserv]

14 minutes ago, maharaja said:

The Touring is sort of similar to the 911 Targa. 

 

That is what tomphot and I would argue!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[blackmesa533i]

On 9/13/2016 at 10:28 PM, danco_ said:

I'm so jealous.

 

Mine only has a Walther PPK under the driver seat. 

 

 

You know, just in case I see a bear. 

 

Good day mister Bond.. Duh nuhn duhh nehhhhh

[fiminod]

This was a great thread to read and I have to thank Anders for sending it to me. I ended up with the car and will keep you all posted as to what I find when it arrives. Anyone have those correct mirrors or wiper arms that they'd like to sell? Figure I'd start here just for good luck. I actually had three lots in that Bonhams sale in 2013, an Aston DB5, Lancia Aurelia Spider and that wacky Mercedes full size bus, somehow I never inspected this rig then and it escaped me. Turns out I know the last owner and his brother, they are great car people from a great family of car loving nuts so I know they tried to improve it a bit. This is my 14th 2002 and after having sold a very original '73 tii in Riviera Blue this past spring I didn't think I'd be tempted to own another one, thanks BaT.....I've only seen one other proper Alpina 2002 in the USA and that was in 1983 at Beaconwood Motors in Watertown, MA. Asking price was an an eye watering $10,500! I have just purchased a restored 1968 1600 in Chamonix for $5000 and wondered how this car could have been worth so much more....well I'm sure it was. Good driving everyone and send me a note should any one kindly possess these items that Anders listed as improvements!

[saaron]

Oh cool - you certainly got a neat car.  Very rare bits.  You've had so many 02s...hopefully this one is something different from the others!

 

Scott

[fiminod]

saaron....1600, 2002 Cabrio, 2002 Targa, 2002tii Touring and an Italian delivery '75 Schwarz Edition with 3800 miles....those were the rare ones...plenty of beaters and regulat cars too since 1983. Looking forward to this Alpina to say the least!

 

[02Anders]

@fiminod, welcome to the faq...  

They're quite a pleasant bunch in here, and the amount of knowledge that's on tap is just astonishing!  I think you'll enjoy it...

[conkitchen]

24 minutes ago, 02Anders said:

 

They're quite a pleasant bunch in here, 

 

Tally Ho! 

[Conserv]

15 hours ago, fiminod said:

....Anyone have those correct mirrors or wiper arms that they'd like to sell?....

 

....an Aston DB5, Lancia Aurelia Spider....

 

 

The correct mirrors are generally referred to as "traps" -- short for "trapezoid", as that is the shape of the mirror itself.  Vintage Autobahn (Connor Elkington), out of Oregon, sells very nice modern duplicates of the original trap mirrors.  A few NOS examples of these trap mirrors are still kicking around but you could wait a long time to actually find a pair: the driver's side was standard equipment while the passenger side was a dealer-installed accessory, and one rarely installed in the early '70's.

 

This forum and eBay are good sources for the wiper arms.  The correct ones for a '73 are stainless steel (except for the splined attachment joint, which is base metal with plating that does not hold up!).

 

DB5 and Aurelia....two more cars on my list of Cars I Really Should Own Before I Die But Probably Won't!  Fabulous!

 

Your new acquisition is seriously sweet!  Congratulations!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[fiminod]

Conserv, thanks for all of that, I will check out the repros  and use them as place holders until the real deal pops up, wiper arms probably a much easier proposition. The hunt is on.

Steve