history and reference 1967 1600 ti

[mm1600ti]

Hello everyone,

 

New to the forum and had a question regarding a 1967 1600 ti. I have not been able to find much info on how many were produced and what values are looking like. It is the European model that was produce for one year and I verified its authenticity through BMW. Deciding how much it would be worth to restore it. Any help would be appreciated.

[02Anders]

If it's a genuine 1600ti, then we're truly talking the Holy Grail of 02's!!
Quite possibly the factory 02 I dream the most of adding to my garage.
Only built in 8670 examples.  But check that VIN must be between 1580001 - 1588670.  If the engine number is the same, then things are really looking up for you!
If it's the genuine article, and you should decide not to bother with the restoration, then please send me a PM...  

[mm1600ti]

Mine is Vin 1580677, from all the records I can tell it is the original engine with 77k miles. The car is all complete. Which number do I look at on the engine? 

[Conserv]

+1

 

What Anders said!  You are a lucky man.

 

This forum has discussed 1600ti's on numerous occasions, such as the following thread, for VIN 1585171 (February 7, 1968):

 

We never did find out if that 1600ti sold or not!

 

But I can't locate a particular thread that discussed values, or maybe it discussed values of 2002ti's (or even 2002tii's) and just happened to show a high-priced 1600ti then on the market.  Anyway, I suspect that values are in the same approximate range as 2002ti's of similar condition and in similar markets.  The 1600ti's are obviously rarer but the 2002ti's have a wee bit more gusto.

 

All of this said, my gut says that gorgeous 2002ti's are in the $60K to $80K range -- I assume that by mentioning a range such as this, a few knowledgeable people will jump in and show why my figures are way off, or something like that.  And that's fine.  If gorgeous 2002ti's are $100K, or $50K, both have their advantages!

 

If my range is not too far off, and the lion's share of a restoration is being performed by others, at a high-quality shop, it seems it might be relatively easy to spend more for the restoration than the car's value post-restoration.  This assumes you are located in a high-cost locale, such as Western Europe, the U.K., or the U.S.  Of course, I don't view cars as "investments" so, if you do, you'll need to take that into account.  Here in the U.S., if you hand a needy old car to a top-notch restoration shop and say, "Restore it!" it's very easy to spend $80K to $120K -- or more.  But I have no idea where you are located (the U.S. seems unlikely because you can probably count the number of 1600ti's here on one hand, or maybe no hands)!  The condition, completeness, factory equipment (e.g., a sunroof), and color of your example, of course, make a material difference in both the car's restored value -- e.g., a very complete numbers-matching car with fabulous documentation -- and its restoration costs.

 

My personal opinion -- and it differs remarkably from my personal opinion, say, 30-40 years ago -- is that a rare car such as a 1600ti should only be restored to the extent it needs to be restored.  Ground-up restorations -- which are generally over-restorations -- irrevocably change the character of the car.  So please consider how lucky we are to have a 48-year-old 1600ti and treat it accordingly!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Edited September 20, 2016 by Conserv

[Conserv]

On 9/20/2016 at 6:13 PM, mm1600ti said:

Mine is Vin 1580677, from all the records I can tell it is the original engine with 77k miles. The car is all complete. Which number do I look at on the engine? 

 

The engine number is stamped on a flat machined boss at the very rear of the engine block, just above where the starter motor's nose pokes into the bellhousing.  The engine number -- stamped, not cast -- is flanked by a pair of + symbols.  In the 1600ti thread I linked in my prior post, we provide more specifics about locating the engine number.

 

The excellent VIN decoder offered by the BMW 2002 Club of Columbia:

 

http://www.bmwclasicos.com/vin.php

 

shows that your car was manufactured within the last 4 months of 1967 (it's accurate but not precise like BMW Archives).  I'm guessing that it has 12-volt electricals as I believe the 6V-to-12V switchover occurred in August 1967.

 

All in all, a great car to have!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Conserv

[mm1600ti]

I'm Actually in Denver, CO Steve. I agree about only spending to a certain extent on a car. I want to still drive the car not just trailer it to shows, but mainly deal with the rust issues on the rockers and quarter panels. Everything else is in good condition and the car is currently driving around, took it out for a spin this last weekend for the first time. It was sitting for years when I found it a month ago and cleaned everything up and got it running. 

[Son of Marty]

As Steve said fix what needs to be fixed but please tread lightly, normally I'd say it's your car do what you like but there just aren't enough 1600 Ti's to lose one, If you want a car to chop on and modify (lord know's I've done my share) do a 2002 please.   

[Conserv]

11 minutes ago, mm1600ti said:

I'm Actually in Denver, CO Steve. I agree about only spending to a certain extent on a car. I want to still drive the car not just trailer it to shows, but mainly deal with the rust issues on the rockers and quarter panels. Everything else is in good condition and the car is currently driving around, took it out for a spin this last weekend for the first time. It was sitting for years when I found it a month ago and cleaned everything up and got it running. 

 

Great!  There's got to be enough room in ti values to have a good body shop repair the rockers and quarter panels, and paint what needs to be painted!

 

Like I said, you are a lucky man!

 

And this further proves that one would need at least one hand to count all the 1600ti's presently in the U.S.!  Have you been able to discover when and how it arrived on these shores?  Color?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[mm1600ti]

There will be no chopping unless it is a reputable shop. This one is getting saved. Here are some pics of the car. 

[mm1600ti]

49 minutes ago, Conserv said:

 

The engine number is stamped on a flat machined boss at the very rear of the engine block, just above where the starter motor's nose pokes into the bellhousing.  The engine number -- stamped, not cast -- is flanked by a pair of + symbols.  In the 1600ti thread I linked in my prior post, we provide more specifics about locating the engine number.

 

The excellent VIN decoder offered by the BMW 2002 Club of Columbia:

 

http://www.bmwclasicos.com/vin.php

 

shows that your car was manufactured within the last 4 months of 1967 (it's accurate but not precise like BMW Archives).  I'm guessing that it has 12-volt electricals even though I believe some 1600-2's manufactured after September 1, 1967 may have been 6-volt cars.

 

All in all, a great car to have!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Thanks Steve! Just checked when I got home and the numbers match!!

[Son of Marty]

Wow tha'ts nice from the pictures it does look like you'll get it back on the road with out much work.

[Conserv]

I am SOOO jealous!  Quite complete.  Not "messed with"!  Fabulous find and purchase!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[MikeinNC]

Love the little car.    Good luck with restoration.    

 

I just sent you a PM regarding your clock and a request for some dimensions for my 1600 Ti clone project.   

 

There are some cool 02 folks in Denver who you should get to know.   Brooke Smith has a cool little 68 1600 and just moved out there from NC.   And Jim K who goes by jimk here on the forum is a wise sage on all things 02s and could be a good resource for you

 

You should try to  make the Mid America 02 Fest held every year in Eureka Springs Ark the last weekend in April    Attendees come from all over the country and are a great bunch of folks.   Lots of knowledge and resources there too

 

Again, good luck with the resto

[danco_]

36 minutes ago, MikeinNC said:

Love the little car.    Good luck with restoration.    

 

I just sent you a PM regarding your clock and a request for some dimensions for my 1600 Ti clone project.   

 

There are some cool 02 folks in Denver who you should get to know.   Brooke Smith has a cool little 68 1600 and just moved out there from NC.   And Jim K who goes by jimk here on the forum is a wise sage on all things 02s and could be a good resource for you

 

You should try to  make the Mid America 02 Fest held every year in Eureka Springs Ark the last weekend in April    Attendees come from all over the country and are a great bunch of folks.   Lots of knowledge and resources there too

 

Again, good luck with the resto

upvoted for "wise sage" comment. 

 

Because that's exactly what Jim is.

[vinntagejoe]

I'm interested in the "FIND" story as well (engine shots please)