electrical and ignition Relays...round or square?

[avoirdupois]

I agree with Chris that for the most part (there are likely exceptions) the cube relays are replacements.  Period literature typically depicts cylindrical shaped 4-prong relays.

 

I also think the white plastic female connections pictured above are original or very original looking replacements.  Although there are no doubt exceptions, translucent white seems to predominate on the early model (pre'74) examples I have seen, but as has been suggested many times,  availability (if not cost and reliability) may have had a lot to do with what the factory used.

 

Black

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As Chris knows, even D-Jet fuel injector connections were composed of white plastic too.  The under-the-hood light color connections tended to become brittle when exposed to heat (and light).  Whether those components could have been made even better with different color/composition - to withstand the elements for 4+ decades - remains subject to debate.

 

Edited October 14, 2016 by avoirdupois

[MikeD]

 

 

49 minutes ago, avoirdupois said:

I agree with Chris that for the most part (there are likely exceptions) the cube relays are replacements.  Period literature typically depicts cylindrical shaped 4-prong relays.

 

I also think the white plastic female connections pictured above are original or very original looking replacements.  Although there are no doubt exceptions, translucent white seems to predominate on the early model (pre'74) examples I have seen, but as has been suggested many times,  availability (if not cost and reliability) may have had a lot to do with what the factory used.

 

Black

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As Chris knows, even D-Jet fuel injector connections were composed of white plastic too.  The under-the-hood light color connections tended to become brittle when exposed to heat (and light).  Whether those components could have been made even better with different color/composition - to withstand the elements for 4+ decades - remains subject to debate.

 

 

Avoirdupois.....You said " Period literature typically depicts cylindrical shaped 4-prong relays. Do you happen to have any scans of a page in BMW literature (for a 74) that shows the Cylindrical relays?  I would love to get a hold of a copy.

[avoirdupois]

1 hour ago, MikeD said:

 

 

 

Avoirdupois.....You said " Period literature typically depicts cylindrical shaped 4-prong relays. Do you happen to have any scans of a page in BMW literature (for a 74) that shows the Cylindrical relays?  I would love to get a hold of a copy.

 

 

Maybe I typed too soon.    I had in mind some of the later owner manuals, sales literature and parts catalogs, that "may" or "may not" be representative of what was being sold, depending upon publication date and market.  I was also thinking of images found in late '70s Roundels.  Also, as with most sales literature, there is a printed caveat reserving to right to change things without notice.  I am not close to my own library, so this is the best I can come up with - at present.

 

I have since noticed a number of '02 turbo photos depicting both style relays.  Hard to say what may have been original without knowing the pedigree of each example.  Even though the turbo models appeared in '74, they were probably not all identical.  As has been said before, E10 production seems to have been riddled with exceptions that seem to disprove the rule.  Tii's with snorkels anyone?

 

Sorry I can't be more definitive, but here is some anecdotal evidence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But?

 

 

 

Snorkel?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2016 by avoirdupois

[MikeD]

46 minutes ago, avoirdupois said:

 

 

Maybe I typed too soon.    I had in mind some of the later owner manuals, sales literature and parts catalogs, that "may" or "may not" be representative of what was being sold, depending upon publication date and market.  I was also thinking of images found in late '70s Roundels.  Also, as with most sales literature, there is a printed caveat reserving to right to change things without notice.  I am not close to my own library, so this is the best I can come up with - at present.

 

I have since noticed a number of '02 turbo photos depicting both style relays.  Hard to say what may have been original without knowing the pedigree of each example.  Even though the turbo models appeared in '74, they were probably not all identical.  As has been said before, E10 production seems to have been riddled with exceptions that seem to disprove the rule.  Tii's with snorkels anyone?

 

Sorry I can't be more definitive, but here is some anecdotal evidence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But?

 

 

 

Snorkel?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Understand and thanks for the info.  It helps a lot....Mike

 

[Conserv]

4 hours ago, HBChris said:

My experience with these relays is as follows based on owning a 74 back in the day and currently an original 75:  always small round can relays near battery, square metal ones only on the smog/emission harness.  On the e9 coupes, only Large round metal relays (small and large all had Hella graphics on them).  I can't speak to the Tiis but I always thought the square relays if found near the battery were simply replacements.

 

Chris,

 

Are you saying that all '74 and '75 U.S. '02's had the cylindrical relays, or are you saying that all square taillight U.S. '02's came with the cylindrical relays?  I bought my '76 new on July 30, 1976.  I have never changed any of the 3 original square-plastic relays (dated 8/75, 10/75, and 4/76, on my car manufactured April 23, 1976), and I purchased a 4th relay for fog lights in July 1976 and received a 6/76 relay identical to the 3 original relays.  (All of these relays are shown in my photos above.)

 

And although I have seen quite a few of these square plastic relays -- always dated 1975 and 1976 -- I have seen a lot of the square metal relays on 1976's.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited October 14, 2016 by Conserv

[HBChris]

Steve,

 

I've never checked on a `76, `74 for sure and my 11/74 1975 02 had/have round can relays.  And e9 and e3 used a larger round can relay, they are interchangeable though.

[Glen Karr]

I am the original owner of a 74 Tii.  Round relays with white base.

[Preyupy]

All of the research I did when I was restoring my Turbo led me to believe Round was the correct style for the '74.  The picture of the turbo engine bay above with the square relays is not a compelling example,  There are a number of things that are not original factory equipment in that picture.   

[visionaut]

FWIW, my '76 has it's original metal-cube Bosch relays, mounted in their original 3 white plastic holders.  None of my Bosch cube relays seem to have dates tho'.

 

Tom

[MikeD]

2 hours ago, Glen Karr said:

I am the original owner of a 74 Tii.  Round relays with white base.

Glen...I am the original owner on my 74tii also and I have round relays.  I had my car restored and I don't know if they kept the original round relays in there and just restored the look or swapped them taking out the square relays. I cant remember what was in there when I bought the car. My round relays, when taken out, look dirty and crusty on the bottoms so I suspect that they are original.  The reason I am trying to find out is my friend has an original 74tii with squire relays.  When you go to events where your car gets scored they take points off if there is something that isnt stock.  At a show last week there was a 74tii that had square relays and mine had round. There was a discussion about this and while they didn't deduct points from me for having round I would like some kind of proof that round were also stock from the factory.  I am trying to find 1974  BMW original literature had a picture of the engine compartment that shows round relays.  This will avoid problems with judges in the future.  If you look at the BMW parts book they show square only for USA 74tii's.

[John_in_VA]

46 minutes ago, MikeD said:

At a show last week there was a 74tii that had square relays and mine had round. There was a discussion about this and while they didn't deduct points from me for having round I would like some kind of proof that round were also stock from the factory. 

 

Mike, where/what was the show?

[Glen Karr]

Mike, I have done all the restoration work on my Tii.  Round can relays are original.  Mine are crusty and original.  I saved 74 2002 sales brochure.  Does not show engine bay only Tii fuel injection engine on stand.

[MikeD]

1 hour ago, John_in_VA said:

 

Mike, where/what was the show?

 

John....it was the AACA National meet in Hershey Pennsylvania this past Saturday.

[percy]

To the best of my knowledge, Hella and Bosch were the two primary suppliers of the 4-prong relays in question.  It would be interesting to know when each stopped producing the cylindrical style and transitioned to the cube style.  Since both styles readily fit into the 02s, as has been suggested, BMW likely used what stock was available and this could have easily gone back and forth in the later years.  I thought some clues might be found from what other manufacturers were using, e.g., Mercedes, Volvo, Opel and other European companies used many of the same style relays supplied by the same companies.  However, it seems that Mercedes, for one, employed used the cube style at least on some '72 models.  Before anyone jumps to conclusions, the connections are round pins versus the spade style.

 

 

'73 Mercedes

 

 

Perhaps more on point, there are available images of low mileage '02s that provide strong evidence that cube style relays were used in new '75 E10s.  Bring-A-Trailer posted pictures of a Italian '75 E10 with an alleged 6675 original miles.1975 '02  If the mileage was true and correct, it is likely that few if anything was changed on the car.  Notice the relay style - ahem - cube.  Here is the link: 75 with cube style relays   This is by no means conclusive, but it makes a strong case that some 02s were originally equipped with the later cube style relays, while others sported cylinders.  Posts in this thread support this conclusion.  

'75 Italian E10

 

 

 

 

 

Another turbo

[Conserv]

13 minutes ago, percy said:

To the best of my knowledge, Hella and Bosch were the two primary suppliers of the 4-prong relays in question.  It would be interesting to know when each stopped producing the cylindrical style and transitioned to the cube style.  Since both styles readily fit into the 02s, as has been suggested, BMW likely used what stock was available and this could have easily gone back and forth in the later years.  I thought some clues might be found from what other manufacturers were using, e.g., Mercedes, Volvo, Opel and other European companies used many of the same style relays supplied by the same companies.  However, it seems that Mercedes, for one, employed used the cube style at least on some '72 models.  Before anyone jumps to conclusions, the connections are round pins versus the spade style.

 

 

'73 Mercedes

 

 

Perhaps more on point, there are available images of low mileage '02s that provide strong evidence that cube style relays were used in new '75 E10s.  Bring-A-Trailer posted pictures of a Italian '75 E10 with an alleged 6675 original miles.1975 '02  If the mileage was true and correct, it is likely that few if anything was changed on the car.  Notice the relay style - ahem - cube.  Here is the link: 75 with cube style relays   This is by no means conclusive, but it makes a strong case that some 02s were originally equipped with the later cube style relays, while others sported cylinders.  Posts in this thread support this conclusion.  

'75 Italian E10

 

 

 

 

 

Another turbo

 

Thanks, Percy,

 

The Italian-spec 1975 is/was, I'm quite certain, owned by a forum member, and is a good illustration of the possibilities.  The '75, of course, despite its verified low mileage, is sporting a replacement windshield washer reservoir, of a design that post-dated '02 production but, reviewing my '76's service records -- far superior to my memory -- I noticed I was on my 3rd washer reservoir by 1978, not so with my relays, which survive to today.  But each car has its own history.

 

The cylindrical relays appear to be un-dated, the square plastic-bodied relays appear to be universally dated, and the square metal-bodied relays appear to be sometimes dated.  Perhaps some owners with the square metal-bodied relays could check their relays for dates?

 

Regards,

 

Steve