Early to late model shifter upgrade problem

[Vana2002]

Hello this is my first time posting a topic on a forum I'm not sure if I'm posting it in the right place. If this isnt the right place please forgive me, however I'm also new to 2002 world my question was I did an upgrade on my four-speed  transmission shifter from IE I have a 1971 model however after I did the upgrade my shift lever is not sitting straight anymore!!!. I was wondering if anyone came across this problem or might know what i should look for it seems like the shaft that came out of transmission has someting to do with it but the lever was sitting straight before the upgrade. I attached a picture with an arrow pointing to the part that makes the whole thing twist....

Thank you 

[Healey3000]

Is the shifter itself straight or angled?  If angled, you may have it installed 180 degrees out.  Try to rotate it and see if it now leans in a little towards the driver.  It's difficult to tell in the photograph but it appears as if the lower part of the shifter is almost vertical.  If it is, the shifter should probably be rotated.

[TobyB]

I agree- unclip the shifter at the rod, and try rotating the whole thing 180.

 

However, the late shifter on an early 4- speed transmission may give you long throws- there was a change in the

shifting throws when the style changed to late, and the later system uses less in- and- out travel.

Also, if you mix the early platform with the later lever, the length of the shift rod may not be right- the parts aren't technically interchangeable.

 

And finally, it's my personal observation, but the early style shift linkage is more robust.  The bushings get oil soaked and fail, but with

new parts, the early linkage is, in ECS' marketting hype, "Double Shear".  There's a lot less stress on the bushings than the single bushing

in the late design, and a little slop translates to a lot less free play at the lever.  And if you use the early shifter with a 5- speed, you end up

with a pretty nice short- throw stock shift- not difficult to shift, but nice and direct.  AND it moves with the transmission, unlike every stupid

BMW linkage after 1974.  Google 'E36 money shift' for pictures of ventilated blocks...

 

It's all just metal- when I shorten for a 5- speed, I usually put 10-15 degrees of twist towards myself.  And shorten the rod just a bit

to bias it back, away from the console.  Because I don't have Germanically long arms...

 

hth

 

t

 

[Healey3000]

This brings up an interesting topic - why did BMW change the shifter support design to attach the back end to the chassis?  There must have been a good reason for it.  On my Austin Healey 3000, the shifter support is fully integrated with the gearbox - big, solid castings.  No anti-vibration bushings, nothing.

 

When you use the stock shifter plate and shorten it for the 5-speed, how do you brace it?  The 245 does not have that attachment point for the brace so what's the recommended method?  Or, can one support the rear end of the plate the way the IE product does?  Will that still cause a money shift?

 

Thanks.

[AceAndrew]

Everything there is oem late-2002 hardware, the selector rod (your circled piece) included.

 

There is the chance you simply slipped it in gear during install, did you confirm the transmission is in neutral?

 

I have historically disagreed with Toby on this one.  I much prefer the later linkage setup, bmw used that little selector rod joint up till the late nineties/ early two-thousands.  With the early linkage the pin shroud-clip has a tendency to slide out of the way allowing the pin to drop out.  On the opposite end, the back-and-forth movement causes the pin's set screw to loosen (which in turn the pin starts to come out).

 

Now where's that cat?  It's time to skin it.

 

[Son of Marty]

Healey3000  when I fabed up the shift support for my m20/gretag240 lash up I welded a tab on the back and support it to the trans tunnel with a 2002 air cleaner mounting rubber. Don't know how Ireland did it but I think most of the newer BMWs do something similar.

[Vana2002]

thank you very much for the response guys. Personally i was disappointed with the product that's just me maybe i'm wrong but with the ( IE ) set up that i purchased which it was way over priced i paid close to $300 for it and ended up using some of my old clips and bushings i wasn't even able to use the spring that came with it however you guys gave me awesome tips to check first, maybe transmission was in gear when all this was being installed. i will try to post a video maybe that would explain and show the problem better. in another hand now that the topic of length came up i'm doubting the length as well. could any one have any idea whey that adapter that i circled in the second picture is rotated clockwise and it has kind of tension to the rod that is attached to the shift lever when i try to rotate it counter clock wise the shift lever sits straight. however i will keep you guys updated i will try 2 things.

 

1. rotate the lever 180

2. take it apart make sure its not in gear

 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Vana2002

[Vana2002]

update: i was able to find a picture i took before putting everything together and i noticed the adapter looks okay and straight but once i attached the rod that attached to the shift lever that's when clockwise tension appears. 

[AceAndrew]

13 minutes ago, Vana2002 said:

thank you very much for the response guys. Personally i was disappointed with the product that's just me maybe i'm wrong but with the ( IE ) set up that i purchased which it was way over priced i paid close to $300 for it and ended up using some of my old clips and bushings i wasn't even able to use the spring that came with it however you guys gave me awesome tips to check first, maybe transmission was in gear when all this was being installed. i will try to post a video maybe that would explain and show the problem better. in another hand now that the topic of length came up i'm doubting the length as well. could any one have any idea whey that adapter that i circled in the second picture is rotated clockwise and it has kind of tension to the rod that is attached to the shift lever when i try to rotate it counter clock wise the shift lever sits straight. however i will keep you guys updated i will try 2 things.

 

1. rotate the lever 180

2. take it apart make sure its not in gear

 

 

 

Last time I checked the kit was around $210 for the update, have prices gone up that much?

 

-You don't need to take it apart to make sure it's not in gear.

-Check your transmission and motor mounts, if they are worn out your shifter position changes.

-I will reiterate, you are using IE-provided OEM parts (meaning factory bmw parts) as used on a late 2002.  Your shifter is now effectively refreshed to the same exact setup you would find on a 74,75, or 76 2002.  When in neutral, the rod-to-shifter angle is the same from early to late mechanisms.

 

If you feel stumped, perhaps it would be best to take it to a qualified 2002 mechanic.  If you let us know where you are located, I'm sure we'd be able to help point you in the right direction.

 

 

 

[TobyB]

I thought it was a horse, Andrew- were you beating the head, and I the... tail?

 

heh

 

 

t

 

Edited January 5, 2017 by TobyB

[jgerock]

Picture from below from OP with circle is my car (73tii) back when I upgraded the stock early style shifter with one from 2002Haus.  Same shifter was used with the shortened "dog bone" and tower mount when I upgraded to a 5 speed.   I loved the original upgrade and still love it now with the 5 speed.  

 

One thing inside that circled coupling that is often missing is a piece of sponge rubber that makes for a better fit and reduces vibration. 

[JohnS]

On 1/4/2017 at 11:45 AM, TobyB said:

I agree- unclip the shifter at the rod, and try rotating the whole thing 180.

 

However, the late shifter on an early 4- speed transmission may give you long throws- there was a change in the

shifting throws when the style changed to late, and the later system uses less in- and- out travel.

Also, if you mix the early platform with the later lever, the length of the shift rod may not be right- the parts aren't technically interchangeable.

 

And finally, it's my personal observation, but the early style shift linkage is more robust.  The bushings get oil soaked and fail, but with

new parts, the early linkage is, in ECS' marketting hype, "Double Shear".  There's a lot less stress on the bushings than the single bushing

in the late design, and a little slop translates to a lot less free play at the lever.  And if you use the early shifter with a 5- speed, you end up

with a pretty nice short- throw stock shift- not difficult to shift, but nice and direct.  AND it moves with the transmission, unlike every stupid

BMW linkage after 1974.  Google 'E36 money shift' for pictures of ventilated blocks...

 

It's all just metal- when I shorten for a 5- speed, I usually put 10-15 degrees of twist towards myself.  And shorten the rod just a bit

to bias it back, away from the console.  Because I don't have Germanically long arms...

 

hth

 

t

 

I see that Ireland Engineering now sells a 'Dual Shear Selector Rod' for use with the later style 4-speed linkage parts.  

http://www.iemotorsport.com/bmw/2002-clutch-driveline/2002dssr.html

 

[TobyB]

Dual Shear!  Now with extra scissors!

 

t

 

[gambitpaul]

Can anyone tell me what is the length of part number 7 in the diagram below?

 

I scavenged a junkyard for the "later" style straight selector rod and shift lever you see in the second and third pictures. I think they were off a E34 5 series. But it won't fit together on the car. I think the reason is the distance below the ball on the shift lever is too short, forcing the lever way forward (viewed from inside the car). So I think I can just get myself the Z3 1.9 shift lever and it will work, but I would like to confirm that the straight selector rod is not also the problem.  

 

I have a '74 tii with the original 4-speed and the early style shifter. 

 

Any help is appreciated. Thanks 

Paul