What did you do to your 2002 today !

[popovm]

On 8/16/2024 at 4:32 AM, slowbert said:

I have about 2500 miles since a complete rebuild, and am getting more and more confident that I am wringing out all the bugs. 

To the extent possible, I have been trying to get as many miles on the car as I can. Not only is it a daily driver, I’ve been out for 2-3 hour drives on the weekends. It’s back to being solid and reliable. But always keep in mind you’re driving at 50 year old car and every rattle, squeak, or noise might be something that needs attention. I carry a set of tools for roadside emergencies, and never leave home without my AAA membership card. 
 

However, yesterday I had to replace this tiny metal clip in the distributor (and reconnect the ground connection). You would be surprised how badly the car runs without it. 
 

Thankfully, I bought the car 30 years ago with a (literal) truckload of spare parts, which included several distributors. 

How did you replace the clip and the ground strap or did you just swap in a new points plate altogether?

On mine (‘76) the clip is swaged to the bottom plate and the ground strap is spot welded or brazed or something to the two plates. I thankfully don’t have to fix the clip but my plan for my broken strap was to just rig up something with ring terminals and use the existing mounting screws in the distributor to bolt them down. Plan B if that doesn’t work is to find a NOS plate. It’s pretty dang crusty so that honestly might move up to plan A. 
 

 

['76mintgrün'02]

Pry the little BB clip off of that pin, so you can clean and lube between the plates.  Be careful not to lose the three little pressed-in plastic rubbing dots. 

 

Based on the bottom view, you may have excessive play at the points' plate pivot.  They do wear out.  Especially if they get durty and nobody lubricates them. How much side to side play between the plates?

 

Your jumper-wire idea should work.  You could also try heating the original crimp to soften it and pry it open with a sharp punch and then reattach the wire if it's long/strong enough, or replace it. 
 

I soldered the other end back on and it seems like a solid connection. 

 

 

 

I considered using some small woven copper, but the original was still long enough and had one good connection.

Edited August 17 by '76mintgrün'02
Adding photos

[slowbert]

1 hour ago, popovm said:

How did you replace the clip and the ground strap or did you just swap in a new points plate altogether?

 

I used the same points plate.  The distributor in the car is the vacuum advance type, and I poached the BB clip from a vacuum retard type distributor on the shelf.

 

I attempted to solder the ground strap, which was secured to the fixed plate.  I scraped the previous solder joint on the moving plate until copper was exposed, then tinned the copper and ground strap, and soldered the two.  I only had a small electronics soldering iron, so I was worried that the joint would not hold for lack of heat.  It took a couple tries, but I'm still a little worried the joint is tenuous.

 

Maybe there is a more elegant/robust way to connect the ground strap?

 

44 minutes ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

Be careful not to lose the three little pressed-in plastic rubbing dots. 

 

I didn't notice any plastic rubbing dots when I disassembled the plates.  It could be that those were long lost (obviously by the PO, because I would never make a mistake like that).  But I did grease the plates with white lithium and they moved smoothly.

 

One more note, my BB clip (and the one from the donor distributor) is attached with a tiny screw to a vertical post on the fixed plate.  It is not a C-shaped that is riveted in place like both of the examples above.

 

Edited August 17 by slowbert

[KaneT]

Out at @BarneyT's shop again with @k3vin's car on the healing table to replace a fallen guibo. Early 245 5 speed with the 8 bolter

['76mintgrün'02]

6 hours ago, slowbert said:

I didn't notice any plastic rubbing dots when I disassembled the plates.  It could be that those were long lost (obviously by the PO, because I would never make a mistake like that).  But I did grease the plates with white lithium and they moved smoothly.

 

One more note, my BB clip (and the one from the donor distributor) is attached with a tiny screw to a vertical post on the fixed plate.  It is not a C-shaped that is riveted in place like both of the examples above.

 

You have the early-style distributor, which uses a different BB capturing clip.  Your style has the little screw, which allows you to set the tension on the slotted spring clip.  The later style simply clips on and the tension is set.  (You can spot early vs late distributors based on the bottom edge of the body.  Early are sharp edged and late are rounded).

 

The later style has little pressed in plastic nibs that separate the two plates.  There are three of them.  The early ones have machined surfaces on the plates that slide against each other without plastic between them.  I'd check in on that lithium grease before too long.  It tends to dry out and turn to clay.  I prefer silicone grease, which is tolerant of heat and stays slippery.

 

There are a lot of other differences between early and late styles, such as the way the plates fit into the body.  The late ones twist into notches pressed into the body and the early ones just drop onto a machined ledge in the body.  The mechanical advance designs are very different.

 

Fun stuff!

Tom

[popovm]

@'76mintgrün'02 @slowbert

 

I stole the jumper ground strap idea (and the pic below) from this thread. https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/56227-small-copper-wire-73-bosch-distributor.html

 

It’s cool to know that soldering can hold the original strap on there. I assume you guys used new crimps? Or were you able to open the existing ones somehow? I tried to open the original crimp but wasn’t successful. That was with it still attached to the plate though. I’ll probably solder like you guys did if my copper weave holds up (it looks pretty greasy and haggard) since I like the idea of fixing what was originally in there. Maybe I’ll add in another ground strap for redundancy if I can fit it all in there. And @'76mintgrün'02, will do on the deeper dissassembly. I saw the swaged pin on the clip and assumed it wasn’t serviceable beyond dribbling some oil in there but just prying it back makes sense. Does it need a specific tension when it goes back together or is it tight enough if there is smooth plate sliding action?

['76mintgrün'02]

31 minutes ago, popovm said:

Does it need a specific tension when it goes back together or is it tight enough if there is smooth plate sliding action?

 

Just pry the underside up enough to get it to slide over the pin in the plate.  The pin stays put.  The clip puts tension on the BB, due to the way it's bent.  It isn't adjustable.  Sometimes the BB wears a divot in its track and you can use a dremel to smooth the edges and allow it to roll smoothly again.

Do check the play between the two points plates.  If it's too sloppy, it affects the dwell, which affects the timing.  The points' relation to the center post needs to be a consistent distance as they rotate.

 

I'm surprised you didn't add this stuff to your distributor rebuilding in 2024 thread.  

 

Soldering flux will help you make a good connection.  Those old crimps are Hard, unless you can heat them up.  It takes a fine tipped torch to get them hot enough and even then, it can be tricky.

[72MetallicMalaga]

Spent some time cleaning/degreasing the engine bay as best I could!

 

 

[slowbert]

2 hours ago, popovm said:

It’s cool to know that soldering can hold the original strap on there

I’m not sure it will be the most reliable connection. My braided wire was a little sketchy, but it took solder when I tinned it. I didn’t see the little crimp connectors on mine. It looked like just braided wire and a solder joint. 
 

Seems like you could make a better connection using a ring terminal that connects to the screw that holds the points in place. 
 

Nevertheless, I drove up to Cheyenne and back (about an hour and a half each way) this evening without any problems. 
 

 

[mmaaaaaxx]

Got quite a few items ticked off my list this weekend.

 

-Flushed both the transmission and differential with the appropriate Redline fluid.

-My car didn’t come with a key that works with the doors, so I pulled the tumblers out of the door locks. I dropped them off with my friend’s dad to have them re-keyed to match the key for the ignition.

-Prior owner had had the car repainted and they didn’t bother to uncover the VIN on the fender, so I went excavating for that. It was buried under a couple of layers.

-Instaled a Momo Mod 69 wheel along with a vintage muscle car style shifter from Speed Dawg.

 

 

 

[popovm]

23 hours ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

I'm surprised you didn't add this stuff to your distributor rebuilding in 2024 thread.  

Thanks for all the tips! I hadn’t gotten the plate out until the same day I made my post with the pics in this thread. I’ll definitely be adding an update to my thread once I make more progress and all the parts are delivered. I had no idea about the points plate disassembly. The FAQ guide doesn’t explicitly say to separate the plates but it does say to grease them and it shows a pic of the plates assembled but with the clip removed (must be an early plate). Now I know what it means by that. 

[Mark92131]

OK, I got some things done today, learned some things along the way.  Finally completed the "Sh%$" job of the rear quarter panel widow URO seal installation.  The things I learned on the passenger side helped me complete the driver's side with only a few rounds of expletives.

 

Next were the windows which weren't very cooperative.  I couldn't get anyone in my household to help after listening to the tirade of expletives from the seal installation, so I was on my own.  I ordered the URO seals that secure the window to the hinge and cover the four (3.5x6.5) fillister screws that hold the hinge to the back of the "B" pillar.  Do yourself a favor and order the BMW screws (0119907774), I'll tell you why later.  I also ordered the 2 bushings (5136704139) for the cotter pin that secures the glass to the hinge.  First thing, I installed the seals into the glass track for both hinges, they are longer than the hinge and will require trimming before installation, basically, I just centered the hinge in relation to the seal.  I took a nail and punched a hole through the seal at the hole for the cotter pin, then I lubed up the glass track of the seal and the leading edge of the glass, inserted the bushing into the hole and pressed the glass into the track trying to line up the hole in the glass track with the hole in the glass.  I used the nail to see if I got them lined up properly, then replaced the nail with a cotter pin that I had flattened to look like a "T", so the head of the cotter pin wouldn't be sticking out against the seal.  The head of the "T" is on the outside of the window behind the gasket and the split arms are on the inside of the window hinge.  When this is done, install the folding hinge for the "C" pillar on both windows.  Now you are ready to install!

 

Take the window and hold it up to the back of "B" pillar to see how much seal material needs to be trimmed to install it.  There is an outer seal that must be trimmed to fit between the horizontal aluminum channel for the window gasket and the top of the window at the trailing edge of the "B" pillar.  Then trim the inner seal that fits between the top and bottom of the window seal at the trailing edge of the "B" pillar.  With these seals trimmed, you should be able to push the window and hinge into the back of the "B" pillar with the "C" pillar folding hinge tucked inside the car.  With only one person, I held the glass against the seal with my outside hand and reach inside around the "B" pillar to grab the folding hinge with the other hand.  I then secured the folding hinge to the "C" pillar with the 2 screws and tightened them down, fairly tight.  Then I pulled back the rubber seal to expose the screw holes on the hinge.  I had to shift the window up on mine to line them up.  I had 3.5x6.5 screws from Belmetric and the OEM BMW screws, the BMW screws have a larger head which allowed me to use a impact driver to drive them home without stripping the head.  The Belmetric screw heads were too small to get enough torque to drive them home without stripping.  Used this method for both sides and it worked pretty well.  All that was left to do was to tuck the seal hiding the screw heads into the channel and take some pictures.

 

I had some extra time, so I decide to install the aftermarket rear panels to finish the rear windows.  The aftermarket panels don't come with the chrome strip that fits into the clips and secures the panel to the edge of the bottom of the window opening.  Those panels also have extra material at the bottom to cover the bodywork between the seat and the rear panels, (BMW just glued in some strips to hide this bodywork.  The panels have just one clip hole to screw in the round green door clip to the forward edge.  Care must be taken while twisting in the door clip, the clip will dent the surface of the panel if too much force is used.  My trick for installing these panels is to mount the 4 clips to the bottom edge of the window opening first, then spread the "U" clip opening to give you some more room, then position the chrome strip and top edge of the panel together and hook it into the "U" clip and tap it into place with a rubber mallet until it seats down into the clip.  Check to see that the green door panel clip is lined up with its hole and pop it into place, job done!

 

Mark92131

 

[JamesRamsay]

I've been digging into a distributor of my own:

 

 

My heart sank thinking it was all rusted solid, but it's just 50+ years of various grimes, grits and goops that have settled into a very rust-like aesthetic. I spent some time with degreaser, a toothbrush and some metal polish and it turned out quite nicely:

 

 

Definitely need to source some new parts and do a bit of tinkering, though. The vacuum unit is shot, the springs have just enough rust on them that I wonder if it hasn't changed their tension, and you can just make out in the picture up there that the mechanical advance weights have worn channels in the plate they sit on (hopefully I can smooth the grooves out with a Dremel bit or something). Should be a perfectly good distributor again by the end, though.

['76mintgrün'02]

1 hour ago, JamesRamsay said:

the mechanical advance weights have worn channels in the plate they sit on

 

Originally, there would have been a 'skid-plate' underneath the weights that looked something like this.

 

They get brittle and fail over time.  Stoddard Porsche parts sells one, but I don't know if it is correct for your distributor.  My guess is that it'd probably fit though.

 

https://www.stoddard.com/nla60210201.html

 

The grooves in that plate don't worry me as much as the wear on the weights where they push on the pins in the underside of the center post and the pins' wear as well.  The long pin is what limits advance, when it reaches the end of the larger hole in the plate.  There's often wear there too. 

 

You could share your tinkering in Popovm's distributor thread.

 

 

 

[Rosso Pintura]

An extravagance, but sometimes you just gotta say yes to utterly expensive side view mirrors. Trapezoids looked fine but I needed something a little more zesty.

Edited August 23 by Rosso Pintura