PSA re: “Value Threads”

[AceAndrew]

Hi guys, quick note,

 

As we all are acutely aware, 2002’s have become more popular/mainstream.  With this rise in popularity has come higher prices.  We are at risk of the 2002 being seen increasingly as a “commodity” rather than the “Labrador of the automotive world”.  A large part of how that perception is viewed starts right here on the message boards.

 

Within the last six months I’ve seen a sharp uptick in the number of threads revolving around the “value-aspect” of various 2002’s.  While this is certainly bearable in moderation, if it rises to the point of saturation, this board will in turn start to effect the views of those reading.  It has the effect of numbing of the enthusiasm we all have for these cars.

 

Case-in-point is looking at other cars that have seen value increases in recent years, namely Porsche’s.  I follow a few sections on Rennlist, and they’ve morphed into value-speculation boards.  While there is an enthusiast base, it has been drowned out by speculation threads. Ex: https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-and-911r-229/

*Shoot, checking that link this morning, there is a new thread calling for the “ban value threads”.

 

I’m all for the dissection or appreciation of an occasional car that pops up on the market (like that beautiful 1600 S14), but let’s please keep it in moderation.  There is a “for sale” section that may be a more appropriate place for a lot of these posts.  This is NOT meant as a reprimand, rather just a word of caution.

 

Thanks,

Andrew

Edited July 28, 2017 by AceAndrew

[esty]

i agree...keep it in the for sale thread...if you want to know what your car is worth, try and get it BAT or list it on Ebay or craigslist, you'll find out actually rather than speculatively its value to prospective buyers

 

as an aside, seldom, if ever does a car pass muster with this board...when someone asks the value of a car, they/the car get demoralized and nitpicked to the point of preventing the right buyer from buying the right car

[conkitchen]

It's a mad mad mad mad world out there. Show me the MONEY, it's a hit, don't give me that do good good bull shit. What's my car worth? I'd buy that for a dollar! We are living in a material world and I'm just a material girl. Velocity Channel, Mecum, Russo& Steele, Barret Jackson, Jay Leno's Garage, Graveyard Cars, Wheeler Dealers, Chasing Classic Cars, the list goes on. Easy Money, everyone's doing it, how hard can it be? Buy low/sell high. PT Barnum said it best and Wall Street employs the same tactic. There is a sucker born every minute and there's an ass for every seat. I pity the foo. 

 

 

But what do I know, Ray? 

[silasmoon]

Agreed wholeheartedly. As I was recently on an amazing vintage car rally I was speaking with many Porsche, Alfistis, MGB and MoPar folks who were also in attendance. Every group had kind of a vibe around their respective car culture. The 2002 folks seemed to be "technically humble" it felt. As my friend, and fellow 2002 owner said, "2002's are respected without having an image." Indeed it is refreshing and ultimately beneficial to have such an amazing - and helpful - car community who is focused more on engineering, longevity and the love of driving rather than investment speculation. In the end what we discuss here is 2002 culture. Let's focus on whether or not a heaterbox or a pedalbox is more deserving of being thrown in your neighbor's pool, what the proper torque spec is for a windshield wiper blade and whether or not the stock air-filter housing is Deutschland's master-stroke. 

Edited July 28, 2017 by silasmoon

[danco_]

Speaking of value threads, I should sell my 73 Malaga tii. Wonder what it is worth? 

[oldskoul]

11 minutes ago, danco_ said:

Speaking of value threads, I should sell my 73 Malaga tii. Wonder what it is worth? 

Million bucks with you in it.   

[adawil2002]

1 hour ago, conkitchen said:

It's a mad mad mad mad world out there. Show me the MONEY, it's a hit, don't give me that do good good bull shit. What's my car worth? I'd buy that for a dollar! We are living in a material world and I'm just a material girl. Velocity Channel, Mecum, Russo& Steele, Barret Jackson, Jay Leno's Garage, Graveyard Cars, Wheeler Dealers, Chasing Classic Cars, the list goes on. Easy Money, everyone's doing it, how hard can it be? Buy low/sell high. PT Barnum said it best and Wall Street employs the same tactic. There is a sucker born every minute and there's an ass for every seat. I pity the foo. 

 

 

But what do I know, Ray? 

 

This post's alright Jack, keep your hands off my receipt stack, like new '02 caviar 4-star daydream, think I'll by me an S14.

[kbmb02]

2 hours ago, AceAndrew said:

I’m all for the dissection or appreciation of an occasional car that pops up on the market (like that beautiful 1600 S14), but let’s please keep it in moderation.  There is a “for sale” section that may be a more appropriate place for a lot of these posts.  This is NOT meant as a reprimand, rather just a word of caution.

 

 

Fortunately (in my view), Steve-our-fearless-FAQ-creator seems to avoid editing/limiting the content and posts. I suppose if there's enough demand he could create a section for 'value' inquiries (worth noting is Steve has started "what will it sell for" posts or threads).

 

Curious, perhaps, is the O.P. seems to approve of the dissection of a "beautiful 1600 S14" but offers a cautionary tale regarding the review of other cars on some unspecified criteria; So, what IS moderation? What is the value or barrrier to entry? Who makes the judgement? -KB

 

 

[Lorin]

A separate  "Marketplace Discussion" section like on another forum would useful and probably a good idea.

[danco_]

Or you know, you could just drive them. Creating an arbitrary number you feel a car is worth and expecting to paid out that amount sometimes works, sometimes not. In the end, the market decides what it can bear. 

 

 

 

[Mike Self]

I think few if any of us who are regulars on this board drive an '02 because it's a good investment; we drive 'em because they're fun to drive, easy to work on--and because there's a world-wide, friendly enthusiast community to call on for help in almost every aspect of ownership.  

 

With the (sudden) increase in going prices for '02s, I suspect more and more of us are becoming increasingly nervous about driving one on a regular basis for fear of an accident or even theft.  I would hate to see that decline in usage happen--from my own standpoint as someone who drives an '02 on a daily basis--and for every other owner who may feel less included to actually drive (and thus enjoy) his or her '02.  02s are neither beautiful like a classic Packard or Rolls Royce nor high performance like a Ferrari (or even a modern BMW).  They're just fun to drive.  And when you take away the "fun to drive" quotient, they'll no longer be desirable to us as owners and will pass into the hands of "automotive investors" to flip in endless rounds of high end auctions (as what's happened to 356 Porsches and XKE Jags, for example.)  

 

Hope that doesn't happen with our cars...and we can do something about it.

 

mike

[saaron]

I have viewed these threads as our reaction to the novelty of having other people care about 02s enough to want to pay decent money for them, or want to collect them.  It's kind of like "wow, look at what is happening."  It's still novel to me that my car is worth more than $8500.

 

I've not to this point viewed those threads as us trying to calibrate ourselves to what our cars are worth.  It seems more like being at a spectator sport.  

 

They don't bug me too much.  I suppose they probably don't add as much value in the end as posts about trying to find the damn timing ball.  

 

Scott

[PaulTWinterton]

5 minutes ago, saaron said:

I've not to this point viewed those threads as us trying to calibrate ourselves to what our cars are worth.  It seems more like being at a spectator sport.  

 

They don't bug me too much.  I suppose they probably don't add as much value in the end as posts about trying to find the damn timing ball.  

 

+1

 

 I do like that members bring my attention to sales around the world.  I'm not one much for surfing around the net looking at cars for sale.  I do like looking at all the variations of 02s out there.

 

I stopped searching for that darn ball.  Marks on the crank pulley are my new friends.

[Simeon]

I am with Andrew on this one. The posts make me uneasy in an unspecified way. They just seem so... venal.

 

It's a fine line between a group appreciation and a pile on. 

[lilmo]

The value of my tii seems to rise and fall, depending on my wife's mood and level of patience.