Some thoughtful suggestions needed....

[ray_]

What they said

 

Except I think fitting chrome (early/euro style non-DOT) bumpers would quicken a sale. Not cheap to do, though.

 

Cheers,

[Hodgepodge]

5 hours ago, AceAndrew said:

 

Follow the ethos you describe here and you'll be fine.  The 2002 is a fun driver's car.  It was made to be modded, not mothballed.

 

Hate to ask, but you aren't intending on just fixing it up till it's presentable and then put it up for sale are you?  We're seeing a fair amount of "getting in/out while the fire's hot" kind of thing.

 

Best of luck with your project, hopefully it will give you plenty of enjoyment for years to come.

I absolutely agree that these are fun cars to drive. I have a couple of newer 3 and 5 series cars that are rocket ships in comparison, but they lack the kind of visceral driver feedback that only a true, classic sportscar can provide.      

 

As for the question you asked, for some, the fun is collecting, for some it is driving, for some it is restoring and for some it is flipping.  For me, the fun is in taking a tired old car (preferably with good bones) and turning it into something with a little "wow!" in it, then driving it around with a little gusto and perhaps some recognition (which I call the gratification stage of the restoration) then, at some point, selling it to somebody who is looking for a proper, correct and reasonably impressive example of the car I've restored.  I am not in it for the money.  In fact, it is nearly impossible to restore a car CORRECTLY and sell it for more than you have put into it.   When I sell a car, it is to buy another.  It would be nice to break even, but that is the best I can really hope for....and, of course, the time and labor I put into a car is never part of the bill.   

 

One nice thing about a "plain" 2002 is that they are relatively cheap and remarkably simple, so there is no apprehension about diving in and working on the car myself.   The more expensive the car, the more....hesitation in working on it.  I drove this car around today, took it over for the first of several engine cleaning sessions, and then came home and ordered $1000 worth of parts I already know it needs under the hood and between the wheels.  That includes all new bushings, new Bilstien shocks and struts, brake and master cylinder gaskets/rebuild kits, plugs, points and wires, a valve cover gasket, and a bunch of other bits and pieces, all of which I can deal with myself.   

 

There were about 30 2002s at the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix this year and for 2018, BMW will be the marquis car, so there will probably be more.  My goal is to park this car among the best of those BMWs.  

         

 

 

[Hodgepodge]

2 hours ago, Joesprocket said:

I'd like to add to the list of questions (if you don't mind Hodgepodge) as a 76 owner.

Do or don't tuck the bumpers? Completely aesthetic mod but does it hurt the value to do so? Some say be bold and keep them as they are while others go straight to puncturing the shocks and cutting up the accordions. I would imagine the ultimate upgrade would be to swap with euro chrome but obviously that can be pricey.

 

So what's the pulse on tucking those big beautiful bumpers? Do it or don't touch'em?

I thought about bumpers when I was looking for one of these to buy.  In other words, I thought about a pre-'74 or not.  Little bumpers on a square-tail 2002 have always looked odd to me and personally I like the dark plastic one-piece grills of the square tails better than the metal two piece grills of the round-tails. Why try to make the car something it isn't?  I've seen a few people actually convert their squares to round-tails, and that is also not my cup of tea.  I don't wear a fake Rolex (I wear an Apple watch with a big bumper guard on it so I don't smash it again....), I do't want a fake Turbo and I don't think it makes sense to make a BMW look like a different BMW.   That Chip Foose, shaved bumper thing is cool on some cars, but I haven't seen it look cool on a 2002.  Just my 2 cents....

[AceAndrew]

1 hour ago, Hodgepodge said:

 

As for the question you asked.

         

 

Well that is a fair enough argument, It'll be fun to watch the progress.

 

Where I, and others, tend to get bristly is when all the talk is about "retaining value".   It's a pretty recent unwelcomed encroachment into the 2002 enthusiast community. Most of us see the 2002 as a car to enjoy freely without worry of any perceived "value".

 

Again, best of luck on your project!

 

https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic/201555-psa-re-“value-threads”/?page=2

 

[02Les]

9 hours ago, Hodgepodge said:

I thought about bumpers when I was looking for one of these to buy.  In other words, I thought about a pre-'74 or not.  Little bumpers on a square-tail 2002 have always looked odd to me and personally I like the dark plastic one-piece grills of the square tails better than the metal two piece grills of the round-tails. Why try to make the car something it isn't?  I've seen a few people actually convert their squares to round-tails, and that is also not my cup of tea.  I don't wear a fake Rolex (I wear an Apple watch with a big bumper guard on it so I don't smash it again....), I do't want a fake Turbo and I don't think it makes sense to make a BMW look like a different BMW.   That Chip Foose, shaved bumper thing is cool on some cars, but I haven't seen it look cool on a 2002.  Just my 2 cents....

Coming from the other side of the pond, I expect all square light cars to have chrome bumpers as they did for the rest of the World, but, the correct ones for '71-'75 cars, and, no over-riders on the rear bumper.

[ray_]

That^

 

;-)

 

Cheers,

[Conserv]

Echoing what others (especially, Mark) have said about mirrors, add that right side mirror.  All '02's came from the factory with a single driver's side mirror.  But a mirror for the passenger side was a dealer accessory from early on -- although very few people in the early '70's actually cared to have a passenger side mirror.

 

I was -- still am -- quite...fanatic, and insisted on the "balance" provided by dual side mirrors.  I had the dealer add the mirror when the car was new (first photo: $20.00, highway robbery!).  Below (second and third photos) is my '76 in April 1977.  Perfectly balanced....

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Conserv

[Jim_75Sahara]

I had a '75 Sahara 2002; now sold. When it sold, the emission control parts were long gone. It had a tii exhaust manifold and a standard exhaust system beyond that. It had a new Weber 32/36 carb underneath a stock air cleaner/snorkel setup. (original camshaft intact too) It had a 320is steering wheel, Mahle bottle cap alloys, H&R springs, Bilstein HD suspension, an added flag mirror on the passenger side and Hella H4 headlamps, so it looked pretty much stock -- big bumpers and all. I had the silly blacked out trim done away with along with the dark tint to the windows. I also removed the Wink mirror and the trailer hitch that it came with from Alabama. That was MY cup of tea, but when it was time to sell, it went to the first caller in a flash. You can do what you want with it.... Enjoy.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Jim_75Sahara

[Hodgepodge]

1 hour ago, 02Les said:

Coming from the other side of the pond, I expect all square light cars to have chrome bumpers as they did for the rest of the World, but, the correct ones for '71-'75 cars, and, no over-riders on the rear bumper.

You have a very good point.  As usual, I was thinking of the U.S. versions of the car that I grew up with.  Still...given that these cars are probably not yet valued highly enough for a lot of them to be shipped overseas, I'm thinking I'm still going to keep the big bumpers on the car.  I will qualify my comment by saying that growing up in the U.S. with the big bumpers on square-tails, the smaller bumpers look a little odd and incorrect to me.    And I have an experience....I got rear ended by a Toyota while driving my '85 535is.  This was in 1998 or so.  I was at a red light with the five-speed in neutral so the impact just launched me forward with the bumper struts taking the brunt of the impact.  The plastic-bumper Toyota was totaled.  The BMW only needed a new bumper and bumper struts.   Those bumpers look bulky, but in an accident, especially an accident with today's silly Styrofoam-bumper cars, they do a great job of  protecting the car from any real damage.   Honestly, the way my wife likes to back into one of my cars with one of my other cars, which she seems to do almost monthly (even with backup sensors and cameras...), I wish we still had 5 MPH bumpers.  :-)  

[Joesprocket]

Completely agree that the big bumpers serve as appropriate protection above the earlier chrome bumpers - especially with the other bigger, speedier cars on the road. From a design standpoint though, they are awful. That said, I'm going to keep them for now because I really don't like the idea of cutting the black accordions and not having a sound way of piecing the two halves back together.

 

To your point - some things are better left alone.

[John76]

The recipe I have for my '76 (original owner) is to keep it :  Safe, Reliable, Fun, Efficient, and Visually pleasing.

Like Conserv (Steve), I kept my car waxed and garaged to excess...well beyond the BMW paint warranty. My original Fjord metallic paint fell off after 6 years.

I had a complete  "trim off, windows out" paint job in 1994, and the car still looks new.  What a difference a quality, 2-stage clear coat will make, especially with pre water based paint.

Yes, it has the big "diving board" bumpers, and the large square tail lights and turn signals, but this adds to the Safety features. A 5 mph bumper will always win against a 2 mph plastic bumper. The small chrome (pre '74) bumpers do look great on the "roundies", but I would hate to actually bump anything with them.

Emissions stuff: This is part of my quest for Efficiency.  The M10 engine is a great design!  Big bore, short stroke, aluminum OHC hemi head, 5-main crank, etc..

Unfortunately, the '75 and '76 engines were hampered with low compression, thermal reactors, air injection, EGR, and retarded ignition as an attempt to meet US emissions standards.

So, keep all your emissions stuff intact, cleaned and fully functional....in a box!  No need to feel guilty about poisoning the air we breathe. A well tuned M10 sans the thermal reactor/ air pump/ EGR will easily meet the HC, CO and NOX values...even in California.

Visually pleasing: This of course is subjective. I choose to keep the stock steel wheels, but have mounted 185/70's with slightly stiffer and lower springs (lowers car by 3/4 inch from stock) and a 19mm front sway bar. All brake parts (front and rear) are new and work flawlessly.

Everything else looks pretty much stock:  Weber card is hidden nicely under the stock air cleaner/snorkel, 530i rearview mirror is a big improvement while still looking stock, 320i 380mm steering wheel feels so much better than the original 400mm wheel, A Tii exhaust manifold and heat shield replace the thermal reactor, and looks "stock". I did remove the ash tray to make room for the voltmeter and oil pressure gauges, but this can be returned to "bone stock" at a moment's notice. One thing I did that cannot be reversed is to install a quartz clock on the dash (cut-out is there for the Tii clock). Interior is original.

Fun?  Absolutely! 

 

[PaulTWinterton]

16 hours ago, Joesprocket said:

I would imagine the ultimate upgrade would be to swap with euro chrome but obviously that can be pricey.

 

But so pretty.

Edited October 12, 2017 by PaulTWinterton

[PaulTWinterton]

16 minutes ago, John76 said:

I would hate to actually bump anything with them.

 

Agreed.  Don't bump my bumpers!  Crazy.  I'm so paranoid I rarely parallel park my car.  Only if I can keep an eye on it.

Edited October 12, 2017 by PaulTWinterton

[Conserv]

7 hours ago, John76 said:

....One thing I did that cannot be reversed is to install a quartz clock on the dash (cut-out is there for the Tii clock). Interior is original....

 

 

+1

 

Even with my appreciation for “stock”, I’ve never had a moment of regret about the tii clock I installed the first week I owned the ‘76...

 

Best regards,

 

Steve