Why did this 1973 tii sell for $93K?

[joebarthlow]

no complaints here. This sale helps raise the value of 2002s, some more than others. We all benefit from that. I don't like to invest my hard earned money into some that loses value. No, I'm not selling my car, but I have a great argument to convince the wife to allow me to make improvements 

 

[Brandon]

6 hours ago, COOP said:

I sold my Baikal (originally Sahara)/Saddle ‘72 tii (sunroof car with 54K documented miles and reams of records going back to 1972) at Concours on the Avenue in Carmel this past August (an hour after it had won Best in Class) for a price that makes this result look positively tame. I had no plans of selling it and had never even mentioned to a single soul that I’d entertain a sale...but the price was an opportunity that I would have been stupid to pass on. Yes, I still miss her.

 

I never saw this BaT car in person but it looked like a gorgeous car. My friend and OCD body-man, Roger Elle, who knew my tii intimately, saw this car at Legends and texted me “it’s a pretty straight car but not even in the same class as yours.” When I pressed him for further details, he said “the paint looks dead compared to your car, the interior isn’t nearly as nice, there’s no sunroof and it doesn’t have even close the provenance of your car.” That’s Roger, it sure looked sweet to me!

 

Respectfully, I think that there are a few things that the “A-Fool-Is-Born-Every-Minute” contingent is missing. 

 

First, I think that some people are not grasping the enormous scale of wealth that we’re talking about with buyers who pay the top dollar prices. For the most part, they are not you and I, dear fellow FAQers. They are people to whom another $100K or so means NOTHING if they really want something badly enough. The European gentleman who bought my car recently spent a million dollars on the restoration of a 1953 Italian exotic, including nearly $100K to recreate a missing transmission (case, gears, synchros, everything). His attitude was that he might never encounter a tii as nice as mine and he wasn’t getting on a plane home without having secured it. By the way, he was/is no fool. He is a self-made success story worth hundreds of millions who builds global companies, not to mention an MBA who speaks 5 languages. He was 100% aware of the past precedents and “market value” (whatever that means) for tiis...and couldn’t care less, as long as my car was relocated ASAP from my garage in Oakland to his in Belgium.

 

Another crucial consideration here is simple demographics. In general, the people paying the really big prices for these cars (and other cars of the late 60’s/early 70’s) were in college or grad school and broke when they were new. They lusted after these cars in their youth but couldn’t afford to buy them, not even close. Now, 40-50 years later, they’re hugely wealthy and can purchase whatever they want, in this case not only a car but an object that brings them instantly back to a nostalgic, romantic, magical reference point in their lives. That feeling is really what they’re paying for: They can’t be 20 again, but a showroom-time-warp tii can make them feel 20...and how do you put a price on that?!

 

By the way, an interesting point about the factory, 2002 Turbo. Yes, they’re rare and cool...but some people don’t covet them nearly as much as they do a nice tii. First, they’re nowhere near as sweet of a pure, “driver’s car” and few people disagree about that. Second, their style is quite polarizing, with some finding them “period-awesome” while others view their riveted flares and loud graphics to be too flashy.

 

COOP

 

PS: A couple shots of my car below, the day that it sold. Sigh...

You make good points but all I’m saying is paying significantly over market value for a car is what makes a rich man not rich anymore...it’s not wise and is a bad investment....it’s foolish.  But as they say,  to each his own.

[BarneyT]

I think coop summed  it up very well, but I still think...a wise man grows rich while seeming poor an extravagant man grows poor while seeming rich...100k is not a lot of money to the people buying these cars like it is to most of us...I saw a nice 63 corvette sell for less that 93k...Barney

[PaulTWinterton]

12 hours ago, COOP said:

for a price that makes this result look positively tame.

 

Oh my!

 

Love your summation COOP.  And besides...Jerry Seinfeld drove your car.

[joebarthlow]

13 hours ago, COOP said:

I sold my Baikal (originally Sahara)/Saddle ‘72 tii (sunroof car with 54K documented miles and reams of records going back to 1972) at Concours on the Avenue in Carmel this past August (an hour after it had won Best in Class) for a price that makes this result look positively tame. I had no plans of selling it and had never even mentioned to a single soul that I’d entertain a sale...but the price was an opportunity that I would have been stupid to pass on. Yes, I still miss her.

 

I never saw this BaT car in person but it looked like a gorgeous car. My friend and OCD body-man, Roger Elle, who knew my tii intimately, saw this car at Legends and texted me “it’s a pretty straight car but not even in the same class as yours.” When I pressed him for further details, he said “the paint looks dead compared to your car, the interior isn’t nearly as nice, there’s no sunroof and it doesn’t have even close the provenance of your car.” That’s Roger, it sure looked sweet to me!

 

Respectfully, I think that there are a few things that the “A-Fool-Is-Born-Every-Minute” contingent is missing. 

 

First, I think that some people are not grasping the enormous scale of wealth that we’re talking about with buyers who pay the top dollar prices. For the most part, they are not you and I, dear fellow FAQers. They are people to whom another $100K or so means NOTHING if they really want something badly enough. The European gentleman who bought my car recently spent a million dollars on the restoration of a 1953 Italian exotic, including nearly $100K to recreate a missing transmission (case, gears, synchros, everything). His attitude was that he might never encounter a tii as nice as mine and he wasn’t getting on a plane home without having secured it. By the way, he was/is no fool. He is a self-made success story worth hundreds of millions who builds global companies, not to mention an MBA who speaks 5 languages. He was 100% aware of the past precedents and “market value” (whatever that means) for tiis...and couldn’t care less, as long as my car was relocated ASAP from my garage in Oakland to his in Belgium.

 

Another crucial consideration here is simple demographics. In general, the people paying the really big prices for these cars (and other cars of the late 60’s/early 70’s) were in college or grad school and broke when they were new. They lusted after these cars in their youth but couldn’t afford to buy them, not even close. Now, 40-50 years later, they’re hugely wealthy and can purchase whatever they want, in this case not only a car but an object that brings them instantly back to a nostalgic, romantic, magical reference point in their lives. That feeling is really what they’re paying for: They can’t be 20 again, but a showroom-time-warp tii can make them feel 20...and how do you put a price on that?!

 

By the way, an interesting point about the factory, 2002 Turbo. Yes, they’re rare and cool...but some people don’t covet them nearly as much as they do a nice tii. First, they’re nowhere near as sweet of a pure, “driver’s car” and few people disagree about that. Second, their style is quite polarizing, with some finding them “period-awesome” while others view their riveted flares and loud graphics to be too flashy.

 

COOP

 

PS: A couple shots of my car below, the day that it sold. Sigh...

Bingo.

['76mintgrün'02]

10 hours ago, COOP said:

I had no plans of selling it and had never even mentioned to a single soul that I’d entertain a sale...

 

well, you sort of hinted at it here :

 

"I have two, pretty nice 2002s that I suppose have some value and which will continue to appreciate should the current trend continue...But I don't have any active intentions of selling them as I'd likely regret it, regardless of what someone paid for them...but who knows, I still might for the right money, and weep with regret until I die."

 

https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic/193525-an-you-thought-02-prices-were-getting-crazy/?do=findComment&comment=1166982

 

[COOP]

1 hour ago, '76mintgrun'02 said:

 

well, you sort of hinted at it here :

 

"I have two, pretty nice 2002s that I suppose have some value and which will continue to appreciate should the current trend continue...But I don't have any active intentions of selling them as I'd likely regret it, regardless of what someone paid for them...but who knows, I still might for the right money, and weep with regret until I die."

 

https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic/193525-an-you-thought-02-prices-were-getting-crazy/?do=findComment&comment=1166982

 

lol, touché!

 

COOP

[JohnS]

So COOP,

  what are you going to build next? 

[COOP]

51 minutes ago, JohnS said:

So COOP,

  what are you going to build next? 

 

Something very sexy and racy...It’s called a “Patio 2000” and my Wife is heavily involved in the design concept...

 

Once the mighty,

 

COOP

 

Seriously though, just gonna enjoy the M2 and the motorcycles for awhile!

 

Edited October 19, 2017 by COOP

[jgerock]

Now that this topic has been peeled open....

Coop- how many miles did you put on the restored tii before it sold?

Would you have done anything differently?

How long was it at the restoration shop?

How many times did you go to the shop to inspect it?

Were there times the car was pushed to the side (waiting for parts or appropriate labor or funds)?

 

and finally:  how much work did you personally do to the car  during the restoration?

 

Not judging here- only asking.

 

jim 

Edited October 20, 2017 by jgerock

[conkitchen]

8 minutes ago, jgerock said:

Now that this topic has been peeled open....

Coop- how many miles did you put on the restored tii before it sold?

Would you have done anything differently?

How long was it at the restoration shop?

How many times did you go to the shop to inspect it?

Were there times the car was pushed to the side (waiting for parts or appropriate labor or funds)?

 

and finally:  how much work did you personally do to the car  during the restoration?

 

Not judging here- only asking.

 

jim 

You will summon the All Mighty Delia with lines of question such as these. 

I even did a lil bit of work on that car, but I'm not saying what, I like riding coat tails though. 

[jgerock]

1 minute ago, conkitchen said:

You will summon the All Mighty Delia with lines of question such as these. 

I even did a lil bit of work on that car, but I'm not saying what, I like riding coat tails though. 

Lol- Delia's too busy on BaT?

[COOP]

This pretty much tells the whole dang story lol...If you keep clicking on a pic, you can zoom to the point that it's clear enough to read. Not trying to be flippant but I think that Bimmer told the story better than I can now after a long and disappointing work day! Happy to fill in any blanks that are not addressed in the article...

 

BTW, apologies to everyone for hijacking the heck out of this thread...Originally just wanted to add my usual '02 cents to the whole "value discussion."

 

COOP

 

Edited October 20, 2017 by COOP

[conkitchen]

Gestalt! 

[markmac]

1 hour ago, jgerock said:

Now that this topic has been peeled open....

Coop- how many miles did you put on the restored tii before it sold?

Would you have done anything differently?

How long was it at the restoration shop?

How many times did you go to the shop to inspect it?

Were there times the car was pushed to the side (waiting for parts or appropriate labor or funds)?

 

and finally:  how much work did you personally do to the car  during the restoration?

 

Not judging here- only asking.

 

jim 

 

Here is one for you, how do you handle the IRS?  Significant capital gain, bought the car for 'x' put 'y' into it and sold for 'z'....and 'z' is a lot more than the sum of 'x+y'.  Uncle sammy is going to want his cut.  Done some reading up on this and visited with our accountant just a bit about it.  I have had folks for years circling around my car trying to buy it and that will only intensify as it comes closer to completion....I have no intention on selling it (but then often that is the case and was the case here with Daniel), but then the potential exists for someone (as previously suggested) to make an offer you can't walk away from.  No need to answer the question, I know enough to know that depositing a check (or a wire transfer....or any other mechanical means of transferring a large sum of cash).....alerts our good friends at the Internal Revenue Service.  Total derail of this thread, sorry....I hesitate (almost) writing those letters 'IRS'.