Ludwig is 45 today

[02Les]

On ‎12‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 12:35 PM, Conserv said:

 

John,

 

Just email the VIN to BMW Archives (info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com) and request their data. There is no charge, and it is precisely the same data that would appear on the pricey certificate.

 

Please share your email from Archives!

 

VIN 2760048 was manufactured October 21, 1971 and VIN 2760156 was manufactured December 17, 1971.  I have no Archive data between those VIN’s.  And only 100+ U.S. tii’s over that two-month period, from October 21 to December 17, is an exceptionally small production — the plant could produce 50 ‘02’s a day!

 

They must have been waiting for Kugelfischers, or non-snorkel radiator supports, or something... ?

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

Here's what I have for '71 manufactured US tiis. Bear in mind that the dates are what the Owners-Sellers stated.

2760007 - 20 Oct 1971

2760018 - 20 Oct

2760043 - ? Aug '71

2760048 - 21 Oct

2760051 - 1 Sep

2760076 - 1 Dec

2760096 - 3 Dec

2760124 - 2 Dec

2760156 - 17 Dec

2760321 - 28 Dec

2760370 - 29 Dec

2760403 - 30 Dec

 

2760422 is the last one built 1971

 

A total cluster f! Supposedly manufacture started in August '71, so it was a real slow Aug through beginning of Dec.

[wojo]

On 12/20/2017 at 1:35 PM, Conserv said:

 

John,

 

Just email the VIN to BMW Archives (info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com) and request their data. There is no charge, and it is precisely the same data that would appear on the pricey certificate.

 

Please share your email from Archives!

 

VIN 2760048 was manufactured October 21, 1971 and VIN 2760156 was manufactured December 17, 1971.  I have no Archive data between those VIN’s.  And only 100+ U.S. tii’s over that two-month period, from October 21 to December 17, is an exceptionally small production — the plant could produce 50 ‘02’s a day!

 

They must have been waiting for Kugelfischers, or non-snorkel radiator supports, or something... ?

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the link to BMW Archives.  They replied quickly to my request.  My VIN 4227595 was built on May 7, 1974.  I knew it was in May but didn't know the exact date.  We've been together since November 25, 1978.  

[Conserv]

On 12/24/2017 at 12:47 PM, 02Les said:

Here's what I have for '71 manufactured US tiis. Bear in mind that the dates are what the Owners-Sellers stated.

2760007 - 20 Oct 1971

2760018 - 20 Oct

2760043 - ? Aug '71

2760048 - 21 Oct

2760051 - 1 Sep

2760076 - 1 Dec

2760096 - 3 Dec

2760124 - 2 Dec

2760156 - 17 Dec

2760321 - 28 Dec

2760370 - 29 Dec

2760403 - 30 Dec

 

2760422 is the last one built 1971

 

A total cluster f! Supposedly manufacture started in August '71, so it was a real slow Aug through beginning of Dec.

 

Thanks, Les,

 

I only see two material out-of-sequence VIN’s:  2760043 (August 1971) and 2760052 (September 1, 1971).   My records tend to show U.S. tii production starting up in October (1972 and 1973 model years) or November (1974 model years).  I’ve seen nothing suggesting actual U.S. model tii’s beginning production in August or even September.  I find the un-specific “Aug. ‘71” doubtful and even the September 1 date seems like someone who heard someone — like myself —harping “new model years begin September 1 !”  I’d want to audit both those dates.

 

The one-day out-of-sequence issue I see on VIN’s 2760096 and 2760124 seems to occur periodically and regularly.  I’ve guessed — but don’t actually know — that a car coming off the assembly line with an identified flaw or missing part was not “closed out” or shown as manufactured until that problem was solved, possibly the next day.

 

What I do see here, consistent with my data, is the suggestion that U.S. tii production in November 1971 was nil or near thereto!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited December 26, 2017 by Conserv

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, wojo said:

Thanks for the link to BMW Archives.  They replied quickly to my request.  My VIN 4227595 was built on May 7, 1974.  I knew it was in May but didn't know the exact date.  We've been together since November 25, 1978.  

 

Clearly loved!  Very nice.

 

Thanks for sharing.  When was legal title passed from BMW AG to Hoffman Motors Corp?  I’m guessing May something!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[kbmb02]

On 12/19/2017 at 8:37 PM, mike said:

Ludwig, my '73 came to life on this date in 1972.  With BMW's method of accounting for car years, he falls in 1972 production but is of course a model year 1973.

 

Sweet car, Mike. Your habit of holding on to cars for a long period of time is cool (a habit, by the way, I do not share). No matter how much I like a car, at some point I let them go ... I’ve sold some of my favorites to good friends, girlfriends, ex-girlfriends, customers and strangers (this, I think, I got from my Dad - he worked for Ford, and got a company car every 6 months; we learned not to fall in love with any of them). -KB

[wojo]

6 hours ago, Conserv said:

 

Clearly loved!  Very nice.

 

Thanks for sharing.  When was legal title passed from BMW AG to Hoffman Motors Corp?  I’m guessing May something!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

Steve,

 

Here's what BMW Archives sent:  

The BMW 2002 US VIN 4227595 was manufactured on May 07th, 1974 and delivered on May 11th, 1974 to the BMW importer Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City. The original colour was Inka, paint code 022.

The original dealer was Robert Tuggle in my hometown of Jacksonville, Fl.

 

Watson

 

[Vintagedavid]

I have 1972 TII with VIN 2760407.  I have not reached out to BMW yet for build details.

[02fanatic]

22 hours ago, 02Les said:

Here's what I have for '71 manufactured US tiis. Bear in mind that the dates are what the Owners-Sellers stated.

2760007 - 20 Oct 1971

2760018 - 20 Oct

2760043 - ? Aug '71

2760048 - 21 Oct

2760051 - 1 Sep

2760076 - 1 Dec

2760096 - 3 Dec

2760124 - 2 Dec

2760156 - 17 Dec

2760321 - 28 Dec

2760370 - 29 Dec

2760403 - 30 Dec

 

2760422 is the last one built 1971

 

A total cluster f! Supposedly manufacture started in August '71, so it was a real slow Aug through beginning of Dec.

My birthday is Dec 6th...wouldn't it be something if my Hugo was born on the same day in '71? :-)  Thanks for that info...it helps.  I also have the engine from 2760081.

[Conserv]

12 hours ago, Vintagedavid said:

I have 1972 TII with VIN 2760407.  I have not reached out to BMW yet for build details.

 

Allow me to guess: VIN 2760407 was manufactured Thursday, December 30, or Friday, December 31, 1971!

 

A 30-second email to BMW Archives (info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com) would confirm or clarify in short order.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Edited December 25, 2017 by Conserv

[Conserv]

4 hours ago, 02fanatic said:

My birthday is Dec 6th...wouldn't it be something if my Hugo was born on the same day in '71? :-)  Thanks for that info...it helps.  I also have the engine from 2760081.

 

Hmmm...so how could we resolve this mystery...

 

Maybe by emailing your car’s VIN to info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com....

 

And you could ask for the manufacturing date of the 2760081 engine’s original vehicle at the same time!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited December 25, 2017 by Conserv

[Vintagedavid]

@Conserv ----- The BMW 2002 tii US VIN 2760407 was manufactured on January 03rd, 1972 and delivered on January 10th, 1972 to the BMW importer Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City. The original colour was Polaris metallic, paint code 060

[Conserv]

20 hours ago, Vintagedavid said:

@Conserv ----- The BMW 2002 tii US VIN 2760407 was manufactured on January 03rd, 1972 and delivered on January 10th, 1972 to the BMW importer Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City. The original colour was Polaris metallic, paint code 060

 

Thanks much,

 

So, per Archives, VIN 2760403 was manufactured Thursday, December 30, 1971, and VIN 2760407 was manufactured Monday, January 3, 1972.  That’s all fine but the decoder operated by the BMW 2002 Club of Columbia, which is generally dead accurate — albeit non-specific in dating — shows, as Les mentioned above, VIN 2760422 as the first U.S. tii manufactured in 1972.  We need to bear this slight discrepancy in mind, but I tend to trust specific Archives inquiries over the macro approach of the VIN decoder database.

 

Either BMW was entering the U.S. market very cautiously with the new tii, or was encountering production issues: only 400 of the 2,629 1972 U.S. tii’s we’re manufactured in 1971, a slow start given that the new model year theoretically begins September 1, 1971.

 

We need more data points, but I fear there may be poor survival rate for these first 400+ U.S. tii’s.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by Conserv

[02Les]

1 hour ago, Conserv said:

 

Thanks much,

 

So, per Archives, VIN 2760403 was manufactured Thursday, December 30, 1971, and VIN 2760407 was manufactured Monday, January 3, 1972.  That’s all fine but the decoder operated by the BMW 2002 Club of Columbia, which is generally dead accurate — if non-specific in dating — shows, as Les mentioned above, VIN 2760422 as the first U.S. tii manufactured in 1972.  We need to bear this slight discrepancy in mind, but I tend to trust specific Archives inquiries over the macro approach of the VIN decoder database.

 

Either BMW was entering the U.S. market very cautiously with the new tii, or was encountering production issues: only 400 of the 2,629 1972 U.S. tii’s we’re manufactured in 1971, a slow start given that the new model year theoretically begins September 1, 1971.

 

We need more data points, but I fear there may be poor survival rate for these first 400+ U.S. tii’s.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Interesting.

The info that I have also states 422 tiis were manufactured in 1971.

Noting that 31 December 1971 was a Friday, I wonder if all the book-keepers left early that day for a brew or three, and then returned Monday to finish the records

[02fanatic]

First of all, I appreciate Mike posting up about Ludwig's birthday, as it has spawned a good discussion about production dates, especially for early tii's in the USA.

 

Looking back through my old emails, I found correspondence with Mobile Tradition (now BMW Group Classic or Archive?), where my '72 tii (VIN 2760129) was produced on Dec. 17, 1971, and it was delivered (USA) on December 23, 1971.  But, I also recall receiving an email bringing up a discrepancy in productions dates (one possible date was in October 1971)...this is why I didn't install the Euro Plate on the front bumper with the birth date (12-17-1971).  I recall corresponding with Kai Jacobsen back then (and he's likely retired by now), but I emailed the archives to inquire again, with no response yet.  So, it's still a mystery until I hear back.

 

As for the first 400 or so 1972tii's imported to the USA, maybe they "are" special!  I remember corresponding with Michel Potheau when I was restoring Hugo (circa 2000 - 2004), and Michel said maybe it was one of the European spec tii's with the higher compression (10:1).

 

Hopefully, I will receive a reply from BMW Archives soon....will let you know what I find.

Edited December 26, 2017 by 02fanatic

[02fanatic]

Well, I heard back about the tii engine I have and both of my tii's.  According to the BMW Group Archives,

the 1972tii engine VIN 2760081 belonged to either a Chamonix (paint code 085) or Polaris metallic (paint code 060) car, delivered December 29, 1971 to Hoffman Motors Corp in New York City....no manufacturing date given.  I think it's strange that this VIN car wasn't delivered until after both of my other tii's, yet it has an earlier VIN. 

 

My 1972tii, VIN 2760129 is Chamonix (paint code 085), was manufactured on December 17, 1971, delivered December 23, 1971 to Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City.

 

My 1973tii, VIN 2762774 is Atlantik (paint code 041), was manufactured on October 18, 1972, delivered October 25, 1972 to Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City.

 

Hope this helps anyone interested.

 

John