'68 1600 - Well-Documented/Low Mileage Example Rare Survivor

[02Les]

1 hour ago, Conserv said:

Oops: Les beat me to the punch!  Les, I’m showing 1562153 as the last 1600-2 manufactured in the 1967 calendar year.  My information is coming from the VIN decoder offered by the BMW 2002 Club of Columbia.

I also believe 1562153 was the last built in '67. However, the 2011 Owner of 1562154 stated his was built 12/67, so I erred on the safe side

[Lucian]

I wrote to BMW about my  vin 1561224  they replied  manuf. Nov '67 arrived at Max Hoffman's Dec 1967 on the cars data  tags it is '68 1600-2, I would love a picture of it in Max Hoffman's NY Show Room that Frank L. Wright designed …  AZ Lady bought it new (Frig Air installed) … it's sister funny enough and small world was in German Car Service (I have 4 pic's) and it is a low mile he bought from Estate maybe 30,000 miles but the new owner has no interest in cars, clubs    I wish I had gotten the Vin but I was busy matching his to mine    interesting my 4 wheels on ground are stamped '68, my spare is stamped '67 … Lucian

[HBChris]

Every BMW at that time was delivered to Hoffman NY as that was the corporate headquarters and it indicated title change in Germany to Hoffman..  BMW doesn’t know what dealer Hoffman actually sent it to unfortunately so it’s highly unlikely your lovely 1600 was actually in NY.  Sorry.

[Conserv]

A window sticker, however, will show the legal U.S. Port of Entry (POE).  Below, the window sticker for VIN 1527753, a June 6, 1967 1600-2.  POE was San Francisco.  

 

Port Elizabeth, New Jersey was the POE for cars coming to the Middle Atlantic states and much of New England.  There was no New York POE. 

 

Alternatively, you might be able to back into a POE if you know the original dealer.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Conserv

[Lucian]

I pulled the 2002/1600  Owners handbook with the US Owners guide supplement in hope of finding a dealers stamp … no stamp …. I also have a UK 1970 repair manual and no Dealers stamp …. could we assume it came in San Francisco & truck carrier to AZ? Maybe Hans VW service above was the Dealer for AZ?   Ideas of who I could write/email a info request to?     Lucian 

[HBChris]

If it was sold in AZ port of entry was most likely Los Angeles.  The Hoffman records are long gone and there’s is no dealer I have heard of who kept sale records from the 1960s, or even 70s or 80s.  Starting in 1975 BMWNA does have some info but not from the Hoffman era.

[Lucian]

Last idea almost,  does anyone have a POE LA and try that dealer (Alternatively, you might be able to back into a POE if you know the original dealer)  … Maybe something interesting would pop up?    Not with my 1600-2  but hungry for any history.    I have another idea and will tell results at later date, it may take some time … tks for all the great info …. Lucian.

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, Lucian said:

Last idea almost,  does anyone have a POE LA and try that dealer (Alternatively, you might be able to back into a POE if you know the original dealer)  … Maybe something interesting would pop up?    Not with my 1600-2  but hungry for any history.    I have another idea and will tell results at later date, it may take some time … tks for all the great info …. Lucian.

 

Lucian,

 

I agree with Chris: LA POE for Arizona dealerships. If you find and look at a ca. 1967 listing of global dealerships, you will find there were already quite a number of dealerships, especially in places such as California. Many of those dealerships are long out of business or have changed hands multiple times. Few American companies keep records for 50 years...

 

Have you examined your car for old service stickers or plaques, particularly door jambs, door edges, underhood areas. These often provide clues. For instance, my ‘73, a California car by title and an old registration, also has a couple metal radiator repair tags from Southern California radiator shops of the 1980’s (photos below).

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[Lucian]

Hi Steve, I think I have looked everywhere, but will look again today …  I think maybe the AZ dealer was/is?

 

Since 1966

The Chapman Automotive Group has been deeply rooted in the valley since 1966, when Jerry Chapman and his young family moved from Mississippi following the acquisition of what would become Chapman Chevrolet. Today the Chapman Automotive Group consists of 24 locations and 18 brands throughout Phoenix, as well as Tucson, Payson and Las Vegas. The staff of Chapman Automotive is nearly 1700 people strong, and all are committed to delivering the best ownership experience possible. We welcome you and want to thank you for taking the time to visit our site.

 

http://www.mycarpro.org/New-Car-Dealer/Jerry-Chapman-Chapman-Auto-Center/

 

 

 

 

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, Lucian said:

Hi Steve, I think I have looked everywhere, but will look again today …  I think maybe the AZ dealer was/is?

 

Since 1966

The Chapman Automotive Group has been deeply rooted in the valley since 1966, when Jerry Chapman and his young family moved from Mississippi following the acquisition of what would become Chapman Chevrolet. Today the Chapman Automotive Group consists of 24 locations and 18 brands throughout Phoenix, as well as Tucson, Payson and Las Vegas. The staff of Chapman Automotive is nearly 1700 people strong, and all are committed to delivering the best ownership experience possible. We welcome you and want to thank you for taking the time to visit our site.

 

http://www.mycarpro.org/New-Car-Dealer/Jerry-Chapman-Chapman-Auto-Center/

 

 

 

 

 

Below, Lucian, are the cover and two relevant pages from the April 1969 (“IV.   69”) edition of Service-Stations Overseas.

 

This, of course, is about two years late for your car — and dealerships were changing continuously, and growing in number.

 

It shows 3 Arizona dealerships. Perhaps one of these, e.g., Cross Motors in Phoenix, is a predecessor business for the business now known as Chapman Automotive.  California has a amazing 44 dealerships by April 1969!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Conserv

[Conserv]

Lucian,

 

A few points of clarification, because you appear sincerely interested in your car’s history!

 

The U.S. automotive model years generally ran from the September preceding the calendar year to August of the calendar year. BMW, and many manufacturers, shut down their factories for most of August for holiday and re-tooling. BMW’s, thus, generally have manufacturing dates from September 1 through July 31. Certainly, there are exceptions to this. But your car, manufactured November 1967 is a U.S. 1968 model, just as the VIN plate states.

 

It took 5 to 12 weeks for a new BMW to travel from the Munich factory to a U.S. dealership, depending on ship schedules, weather, the U.S. Port of Entry (there’s a real difference between a Port Elizabeth, NJ, POE and a Seattle, WA, POE), Panama Canal schedules for West Coast deliveries, the distance from the POE to the dealership, and car carrier schedules. If your car was a West Coast POE car (e.g., LA POE, followed by trucking to AZ), it probably took at least 7 or 8 weeks from Munich to the dealership. I don’t know your car’s manufacturing date within November, but I’d guess it was sold by the dealership in the 1968 calendar year. And Hoffman Motors assumed ownership of the car generally before it shipped: risk of loss passed, at that time, from BMW AG to Hoffman Motors.

 

Lastly, the five original steel rims on your car had manufacturing dates no later than November 1967 — it’s a November 1967 car. One of its owners swapped out the four original “on-the-ground” rims for....something sportier! The original rims were discarded or are sitting in somone’s garage / basement / shed! The original spare rim stayed in the trunk (I’ll bet it’s dated November 1967 or earlier). Later, perhaps a subsequent owner, recognized — smartly — that an early, and quite original 1600-2, should have a complete set of 4.5” steel rims. He/she did their best to find appropriately dated examples.

 

A lot happens in 50 years!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

Edited June 5, 2018 by Conserv

[Lucian]

Thank you Steve, solved many puzzles stuck in my mind, I called the book keeper at Max Hoffman Foundation (61mil)  and she confirms what you already know that the MH files in 60's are n/a … and suggested a dealer may still  have records,(One more call to AZ).   Great History...  Max Hoffman Foundation  should give you a grant to write a marvelous book, ;;;;;;who every approves grants and how to request, something to generate … if in the area please come by for coffee, lunch or diner … I am next to UCLA …….Lucian    ps rim in trunk is stamped '67

[HBChris]

Years ago I checked with South Bay BMW which was Vasek Polak until 1997, they have absolutely no records of the kind we would love to have.  At least you know your car was sold new in AZ.

Edited June 5, 2018 by HBChris

[Lucian]

You guys know your stuff, I talked with another nice lady in AZ she says now there are only 4 BMW dealers in AZ and back then only one who may have completed the sale but he is gone …end of road for me, thanks again for all the great BMW History...  Lucian

[Conserv]

BMW today is showing Chapman dealerships in Chandler and Phoenix and a Penske dealership in Phoenix.

 

Arizona is pickup country!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by Conserv