Help I.D. a 2002 or 1600?

[Guest fvhr]

I have recently come into possession of a late 60's early 70's BMW either 1600 or 2002 convertible. In order to get a title for it I need to confirm just exactly what I have. Can anyone guide me to an accurate web site or thread here that would help me to identify it? Or perhaps tell me what info you need from me to ID it? The car was in the middle of a restoration and ALL the VIN tags are gone (engine compartment and dash) and the passenger side front fender is a replacement so no stamping. If there's any other locations I can look for a VIN please advise?

 

Also, we are pretty confident that the engine we got with it isn't the correct engine but it's number is 1614372. I "think" that would indicate the engine is a 1968? But I'm fairly sure the car itself is a 1970 or 1972 but I have read sooooo much conflicting information I'm at a loss. I'll be more than happy to take any pics that might help? Thanks in advance for any info!!!

[CoastalCrush]

 

 

you can email Bmw at

 

info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com 

 

to get legit info on whatever vin you send to them.

 

 

Edited April 3, 2018 by Coastalcrush408

[CoastalCrush]

On https://www.bmwclasicos.com/servicios.php#Como 

 

The vin you provided comes back as a 68’ 02 

[ray_]

Search VIN locations here. It's stamped into the metal in a number of places.

Cheers,

[HBChris]

Except he has no fender VIN stamp, VIN plate or anything else.  Does this car have a title?

 

 

Edited April 3, 2018 by HBChris

[ray_]

3 minutes ago, HBChris said:

Except he has no fender VIN stamp, VIN plate or anything else.  Does this car have a title?

 

 

Hmm, ok. But the stamp area is not part of a typical replacement fender. It's on the cowl where the hood rod attaches....

[HBChris]

Something fishy here.......

[Conserv]

 

Engine number 1614372 was originally installed in a Euro-spec 2002 manufactured sometime in the 1968 calendar year.  An accurate and dependable, but non-date-specific, VIN decoder for 2002’s is the website offered by the BMW 2002 Club of Columbia.

 

https://www.bmwclasicos.com/servicios.php#Como

 

There will likely be a casting date on the engine block and head:

 

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, ray_ said:

 

 

Hmm, ok. But the stamp area is not part of a typical replacement fender. It's on the cowl where the hood rod attaches....

 

I certainly agree with this and Chris’s comment. The true “chassis VIN” is stamped into the right inner fender. The outer fender is frequently replaced due to rust or wreck, but in 45 years as an ‘02 owner, I have never seen an ‘02 for which the rear end (cowl end) of the right inner fender was replaced and the VIN stamp had thus entirely disappeared.

 

To require a brand-new, never-been-stamped, right inner fender, you would probably be looking at a car that was rusted or wrecked beyond repair — for instance, my long-departed ‘70, first photo below, would have needed a new right inner fender!  It went to the crusher.

 

Surely if someone were restoring a cabriolet sufficiently rusted or wrecked to justify the replacement of the entire right inner fender, they would transfer the original chassis stamp to the new component.

 

Are you absolutely certain you are examining the right location? Is there any possibility that paint — or even body bondo — has filled in the chassis number? The second and third photos below show the chassis VIN’s on my ‘76 and ‘73.

 

Don’t pay cabriolet prices for a car that cannot be verified by the factory as a cabriolet. Without a cabriolet VIN, It’s just a 2002 with its roof hacked off!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2018 by Conserv

[halboyles]

8 minutes ago, Conserv said:

Are you absolutely certain you are examining the right location? Is there any possibility that paint — or even body bondo — have filled in the chassis number?

 

+1

 

[Conserv]

LOTS of ‘02 components are dated.  If you find enough of these, you can develop a pretty good picture of the car’s origin date.

 

Engine block

Engine head

Radiators

Transmission (inside bellhousing)

Differential (casting dates on housing and rear cover)

Stub axles were date stamped, at least in later years

Instruments and instrument cluster were dated

Round taillights were frequently dated

Front turn signals were frequently dated

Seat belts were generally dated

Front seats were generally dated

Steel rims

Lots more that I just can’t remember now!

 

In addition to these explicit dates, there were constant “improvements” and changes in ‘02 features that allow us to approximate dates for many features, such as long-neck differentials, which ended in January 1969, with VIN 1664750.  Dashboards, steering wheels, instrument faces, lots of items can tip one off!

 

If we saw sufficient photos, we could probably tell you whether your car is a 1968, or a 1971....

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited April 3, 2018 by Conserv

[Mike Self]

"Real" 1600 cabriolets have VINs between 1557001 and 1558892; "real" 2002 cabriolets VINs are between 2790001 and 2790200.

 

Check the engine number; if it's the original engine it should match those VIN runs.  

 

Be advised that there's a company in the Netherlands that makes a cabriolet conversion for a regular 1600/1800/2002   sedan, but it will have the taller sedan windshield and opening front vent windows (real cabrios have small, fixed vent windows).

 

 A lack of a VIN plate or the inner fender stamping raises warning flags.  There won't be a VIN plate on the steering column as that was a US thing only, and neither cabrio was made as a US model (Carl Nelson's cabrio excepted).

 

mike

[CoastalCrush]

1 hour ago, HBChris said:

Something fishy here.......

 

I didn’t want to say it...

 

[CoastalCrush]

1 hour ago, Conserv said:

 

I certainly agree with this and Chris’s comment. The true “chassis VIN” is stamped into the right inner fender. The outer fender is frequently replaced due to rust or wreck, but in 45 years as an ‘02 owner, I have never seen an ‘02 for which the rear end (cowl end) of the right inner fender was replaced and the VIN stamp had thus entirely disappeared.

 

To require a brand-new, never-been-stamped, right inner fender, you would probably be looking at a car that was rusted or wrecked beyond repair — for instance, my long-departed ‘70, first photo below, would have needed a new right inner fender!  It went to the crusher.

 

I came across a tii with a “replaced” inner fender with no vin. The car held a salvage title. But it had all the Tii bits even the notched firewall piece,  etc.

 

I ended up passing on it. Seemed to suspect. The car definitely scooted along though! 

[02Les]

An early 1600 Cabrio (up to early 1970) will have inner fenders styled like this one:-

 

Later Cabrios (last few 1600s & the 2002 Cabrios - from early 1970) have the added "crumple zones" on the inner fender, like this:

 

This may narrow down your year question, and, as others have said, the VIN should be stamped into  the inner passenger fender (if the inner fender has been replaced/removed you may be wise to give the car back to the Seller)