Help I.D. a 2002 or 1600?

[Conserv]

19 hours ago, 02Les said:

Agreed, looks like a Baur Targa.

However, the 4 position relay bracket on the driver side fender was not a Targa thing until the '74-'75 models.

 

Is the whole front clip — from firewall forward — from a square taillight car (‘74 and newer)? Besides the relay bracket, note the six-fuse fuse holder sitting in a hole for a twelve-fuse fuse holder.  3-piece dash with chrome trim says Euro pre-April 1971, as FunElan points out.  This looks like a combo of two cars, with the engine of a third.

 

A couple photos of the car’s nosepiece, from head on, should allow us determine if it’s got a square taillight nosepiece.  In the area of the chassis VIN, there looks to be substantial body filler, or is that water beading up on bare metal? Is the silver area paint or bare metal? That hole in the VIN area is odd, too. The metal looks mighty thin there. Did someone grind off the VIN that was present on the square taillight front clip?  Why would you remove the VIN number unless you thought that VIN number was....confusing....incriminating....or similar?

 

Looking forward to seeing and hearing more!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Conserv

[2Red69s]

I opened one of those photos up in Pshop..the base of the windshield are of the A Pillar shows some welding which could be Baur or joe blow......but if you look lower it does look like the big box section reinforcement of the A pillar is there. Conclusive proof would show in the trunk - if the big box is there above the shock towers -

[2Red69s]

Don't think it's a Baur Targa, there would be a rivet/pivot hinge in the quarter window and sheet metal with Hoffmeister kink behind it. So still possibly a Baur Voll Cab with the front clip off a 74+.

[Einspritz]

In the early '80s the owner of the shop I moonlighted at used to bring in unusual BMWs; a '74 Baur being one of them. The car he brought in ended up being worse than a Fred Flinstone mobile. So, we (I) disassembled the Baur components with measurements and then took a '74 car and made a U.S. spec car that would pass the DOT.

 

My point being is that there are some companies, Dutch, Italian, whatever, that will do a similar "conversion". Some are unscrupulous.

 

What an unusual ride with all the tops off.

 

The owner kept it for himself, as we weren't trying to fool anyone; then when he died it went to his children and into the ether.

 

So, if you have a red Baur, reach out.

[Conserv]

13 hours ago, 2Red69s said:

...So still possibly a Baur Voll Cab with the front clip off a 74+.

 

I’m still thinking that is the likelihood. But who the heck would so “debase” a bona fide cabriolet by sticking on a front clip from a post-cabriolet period? My answer? Someone “restoring” the car for sale, rather than as a keeper.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Conserv

[Mark92131]

21 hours ago, FunElan said:

Actually, upon second glance, I see the silver dash which would indicate that it is a euro car. So there's still a chance it's real. The hard to tell if the frame around the windshield is shorter than a standard 2002.

 

Another clue beyond the shorter/raked windshield to determine chop top vs Voll Cabriolet is the rear view mirror.  The rear view mirrors were different in the cabs, bolted to the frame of the windshield with a wide aluminum base.  The sun visors were also unique on the cab, with 2 pivot points attached to the windshield frame instead of one and a clip.  Also the receivers for the convertible top latches should also be present, or a least the holes.  If it's a real 1600 Voll Cabriolet rather than a chopped 2002, one would expect to see evidence of these differences.  I agree with Conserv, the front clip looks like its from a later car (fuse holder and relay holder) with the VIN ground off, but the nose looks like it is early from the shape of the center grill and the bumper holes.

 

Too bad there doesn't seem to be a way to verify any 1600 Voll Cabriolet VIN number for this car.

 

Mark92131

[Einspritz]

I think what needs to be considered is that in the '80s these were just "old cars", and you couldn't get many parts (here) as you can today. There was no internet, and unless you had a connection, you were out of luck. Perfect fabrication of sheet metal was out of the question cost wise.

 

So, it is perfectly plausible to graft a late model front on an early model, front clips were cheap and plentiful, and to satisfy DOT. Or, as I have said, re-create the essence of the car using an amalgam of parts.

 

Here in the U.S. it was a total PITA to get a grey market car in, particularly in California. In my instance, the car had to go into impound at a "converter" to have the bumpers, marker lights, and SMOG done to certify it for DOT and CA SMOG. I assisted the converter so that I didn't have to install big bumpers (we put steel box beams in OE bumper) and I made it SMOG legal in order to pass the local test. "I got mine" before the converter had to close up shop due to "shady dealings".

 

I remember faxing and calling the previous owner's dealership in England to get parts for my car as the local dealerships would not do that. Through a peripheral employee, I found a spare one piece dash.......in Singapore. Now you have Ebay and car clubs, and of course this wonderful FAQ.

 

Restoring BMWs then was to get a "driver" that was nice, not to have a perfectly original 100 point car. I will add that even in today's frenzy, BMW is still the "bastard child" of the collector world and only recently that say, the E30 M3, CS Coupes, Tii, and Turbos have increased in value greatly; almost to the point where the true enthusiasts a squeezed out of the marketplace.

 

But I digress.

[dbmw2002]

May I digress, it ain't right, we all know that. Perhaps a BMW v8 and found a fundmedotcom to convert it into a Pike's Peak monster with a Toyota roll bar......all I got, or I'll buy it for 500$ ?

[fvhr]

Story update....

 

I have a member on here coming out from Chicago this weekend to try and help I.D. the car better so we'll post pics and info after our visit. Also, I have a friend who is a local police officer and he ran the info on the guy who dropped it off last year. His name and phone number are correct yet no one ever answers the phone nor returns any calls. This guy has had about 30 cars registered to him over the past 20 years. At least half of them were older European cars that ended up going to the scrapers lol. So this guy must have had a pension for junk cars he "thought" was worth something. so that means there's a very good chance this car is something hacked together.

 

My friend said this guy had a vehicle of undetermined manufacture titled to him in 1996 as a 1973 year 2 door in red. That was all the info there was on it, but it WAS a 7 digit VIN

 

1557264

 

I don't think that VIN is for a 1973? So maybe he was butchering this thing together from several different cars and that was the only title he had for an old BMW???

 

Thoughts???

 

 

[FunElan]

Just talked to our OP, hoping to go see the car this weekend to investigate deeper. We did talk about how 1557264 is indeed a cabriolet VIN!

[Conserv]

On 4/5/2018 at 11:31 AM, FunElan said:

....We did talk about how 1557264 is indeed a cabriolet VIN!

 

That’s very interesting.  So perhaps (a.) the guy either owned a previous cabriolet — or, at least, parts thereof — or (b.) the present car is VIN 1557264, a 1968 (calendar year) 1600-2 cabriolet, with a square taillight front clip replacing a wrecked/rusted original clip...

 

Awaiting the next installment....

 

Regards,

 

Steve

Edited April 6, 2018 by Conserv

[02Les]

3 hours ago, FunElan said:

Just talked to our OP, hoping to go see the car this weekend to investigate deeper. We did talk about how 1557264 is indeed a cabriolet VIN!

1557264 Red (Granada?) was on Ebay Sep 2006 with a Buy it Now of $15k. Seller was somewhere in the Eastern US.

[Conserv]

On 4/5/2018 at 3:32 PM, 02Les said:

1557264 Red (Granada?) was on Ebay Sep 2006 with a Buy it Now of $15k. Seller was somewhere in the Eastern US.

 

Hmm.... Was $15K a hopeful price for a crumby cabriolet in 2006? One that needed, for instance....a new front clip? Just musing, sort of....?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited April 8, 2018 by Conserv

[FunElan]

The BMW 1600 Convertible VIN 1557264 was manufactured on July 26th, 1968 and delivered on August 02nd, 1968 to the BMW dealer Stache in Moers. The original colour was Polaris metallic, paint code 060.

We hope this information is helpful for you.

Yours sincerely,

Julia Oberndörfer

 

Owner apparently wanted to shoot it silver....checks out

Edited April 6, 2018 by FunElan

[FunElan]

UPDATE: Just met OP (Matt) and saw the car with Ben Thongsai and Chuck (Mack on the board). It is indeed a legitimate 1600 cabriolet. Boxing on the kickpanels and trunk that only a cab would have. It has almost all new sheet metal with stickers from BMW still there - including the front clip. The nose panel (new) is from a roundie but it's 74+ behind until the firewall/windshield (since that's what the newest design was when replacements were ordered). That's why there is no VIN stamped into the right inner fender. The VIN plate wasn't riveted into the new metal and very may well be inside the car somewhere, but 1557264 is definitely the VIN for the car - Ben noticed some original Polaris paint still on the windshield frame. The left rear quarter panel was replaced with one from a targa car and the targa part was cut off.

 

Many original parts are in the car - cabriolet specific seats, early dash, glovebox (locking), cab specific sunvisors, windows (including the vent windows that don't rotate). It does need a backseat. The motor is a 2.0L from a euro '68 and used to be installed in the car it seems, since mechanical clutch linkage is present. Smooth case transmission and long neck diff were in the trunk also. 

 

Now it's up to OP to decide if he wants to take on the project and make a fun car for someone or unload it now after he gets a title 

 

Some terrible photos I grabbed: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1n89SQjiycgcuJ4i4nPLuwgW8blnBo1RO?usp=sharing