History Help - 1968 1600-2

[spuriouspseudo]

I inherited what I though was a 2002 from my cousin, but upon cruising this site I've discovered that it might be a 1600-2.

 

Someone posted up the following history from a vin registry:

 

1560035

1968

1967

1600-2

Saloon

Manual

running

Atlantik

Black

for sale Sep '06

Roadfly Seller - Edward Kurek

Buffalo

NY

~Aug '67

 

This is indeed the car, VIN 1560035.  Looked through my cousin's paperwork and he bought the car in Toronto from Edward.

 

In Ontario it's registered as an "1968 BMW 02".  Previously it came from Iowa where it was registered as a 1602...  And before that it was from California.

 

According to VIN look-ups, it seems that it's one of the first of a batch built in September 1967.

 

If you can add anything to what this car is, history, anything at all, I'd appreciate it - I'm new to the community and have a lot to learn.

 

One question I have is: Should it be badged as a 2002, or did someone add this along the way?

Edited April 25, 2018 by spuriouspseudo
added VIN to body and corrected year

[Mike Self]

By the VIN (1560035) it was the 34th (they began with 1560001) US spec 1600 built, a 1968 model, most likely assembled very early in September 1967.  The '68 models were the first ones built specifically for the US market, to meet the new Federal emission and safety requirements that took effect with the 1968 model year.  

 

The color isn't original (Atlantic is a darker, non-metallic blue) and it has 2002 grilles and badges.   A 1600 would have all silver grilles, and of course a 1600 badge on the rear panel.  It would have also had flat front turn signals, red center tail lights and most likely no headrests on the seats.  No interior pictures posted, so can't comment on any interior changes from original.

 

That's about the lowest VIN for a US 1600 that I've seen...

 

mike

[Conserv]

Send your VIN to BMW Archives (info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com), requesting their data, and you’ll learn the precise original manufacturing date — day, month, and year — and factory exterior color.  (Post your Archives reply here because we like to learn! ?). The entry in your original post comes from the database that 02les maintains. He tracks listings of ‘02’s for sale, and other data, which provides, thanks to the length of time he’s been collecting this data, an informal history of many ‘02’s, certainly more than any of the VIN decoders or VIN registries have captured.

 

I wouldn’t be shocked if your car’s original 1.6-liter engine (original engine number = car’s chassis VIN) was replaced with a 2-liter engine, years after the car’s manufacture, prompting the re-badging. It was a common “upgrade” when the original engine became tired.

 

Cherish your outside rearview mirror (a.k.a., “swan’s neck style”). It’s rare, as is its placement at the leading edge of the door. Only 1966, 1967, and the earliest 1968 1600-2 models (e.g., yours) have mirrors thus placed.

 

Although a few pre-production 2002 models may have been produced before January 1968, general production appears to have begun in January 1968, with the earliest examples arriving in North America around April 1968. Your 1600-2 pre-dates the introduction of the 2002 model.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Conserv

[dbmw2002]

Always ask the experts, Steve and Mike are better than high speed Google!

The only tell I know to distinguish the 16 from the 02  engine Is the manifolds. The 16 heads have smaller intake and exhaust ports which corresponds to the manifolds being smaller, very noticeable on the 16s intake.

My experience with this is my 68 16 vs my 70 02.

BTW. I enjoyed your video on installing headlights, great work. 

[Conserv]

6 hours ago, dbmw2002 said:

 

....The only tell I know to distinguish the 16 from the 02  engine Is the manifolds. The 16 heads have smaller intake and exhaust ports which corresponds to the manifolds being smaller, very noticeable on the 16s intake.

My experience with this is my 68 16 vs my 70 02.

BTW. I enjoyed your video on installing headlights, great work. 

 

Most engines have an engine number (VIN) and that will lead you to a 1.6 or 2-liter answer. Certainly later in the model run, the engine number boss — in addition to the engine number — was stamped with the block’s displacement (below are a couple of 2-liter tii blocks [“2,0”]).  Heads are generally displacement specific:  118’s for 1.6-liter engines, 121’s and E12’s for 2-liter engines. I believe there were different displacement versions of the E21 head, introduced in 1975, hence the original head of my ‘76 is marked “E21 2,0” (third photo below).

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Conserv

[spuriouspseudo]

6 hours ago, Conserv said:

Send your VIN to BMW Archives

Done and done - Once I have the reply I'll post it up

 

5 hours ago, dbmw2002 said:

BTW. I enjoyed your video on installing headlights, great work.

Thanks! I have making them - Keeps me from rushing any work.

I'll post up some pics of the manifold, but I suspect that this isn't the original engine - you never know.

9 hours ago, mike said:

no headrests on the seats

The seats aren't original, but I'll get some photos of the interior up, too

 

5 hours ago, Conserv said:

Most engines have an engine number

Ah good, I was wondering if this is the original mill - I'll see if I can find a stamping and grab some pics.

 

Thanks everyone! Great info.  I'll get some more pics up tonight, some of the engine bay and the interior.

[Conserv]

By the by, spurious, I’d recommend that you collect your engine’s number before sending that email to BMW Archives, assuming it is different from your car’s VIN, and request Archives’ data on both VIN’s. This way you can get manufacturing dates both for your car and the car your engine began life with, with a single email!

 

Both the head and block will have casting dates.

 

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Oops. I was too slow!

Edited April 25, 2018 by Conserv

[RogerRamJet77]

By the by, spurious, I’d recommend that you collect your engine’s number before sending that email to BMW Archives, assuming it is different from your car’s VIN, and request Archives’ data on both VIN’s. This way you can get manufacturing dates both for your car and the car your engine began life with, with a single email!
 
Both the head and block will have casting dates.
 
 
Regards,
 
Steve
 
Oops. I was too slow!

Another difference between a 1600-2 and 2002 is the 1600-2 has a clutch with mechanical linkage and the 2002 is hydraulic.


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[spuriouspseudo]

31 minutes ago, rockyford77 said:

Another difference between a 1600-2 and 2002 is the 1600-2 has a clutch with mechanical linkage and the 2002 is hydraulic.

 

The clutch is definitely hydraulic...  Had to replace the slave last year when I started the project.  

[jgerock]

33 minutes ago, rockyford77 said:

Another difference between a 1600-2 and 2002 is the 1600-2 has a clutch with mechanical linkage and the 2002 is hydraulic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I spy a clutch line from the fluid reservoir, 6 fuse block and narrow grills.

 

but what do I know.

[JerryC]

15 minutes ago, rockyford77 said:

Another difference between a 1600-2 and 2002 is the 1600-2 has a clutch with mechanical linkage and the 2002 is hydraulic.


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I used to own a '71 1600 that a prior owner had converted to 2.0l, he even performed a blasphemic rear badge conversion to 2002ti (ground off a tii badge to do it, oh the horror!). About the second thing I did was to install a more proper 1600 badge, by the way. That car utilized the mechanical clutch. As it was my first '02, I did not know to check for these details until I spotted the difference in the Haynes manual. I suspect the original transmission had been left in, simplifying the conversion to mechanical for him.

 

So, for Spurious' benefit, get some books! Haynes manual will get you through anything, with help from the faq of course. There are pdf copies of the blue factory manual available, I think they can be downloaded from the faq site, maybe? Also, 2002 Restoration Guide is a must-buy.

[02Les]

When Edward had it for sale, he stated the car was in CA until 1982 and then put into storage until 2005. He did not mention it had been in Iowa.

Out of curiosity, when was it registered in Iowa?

[spuriouspseudo]

18 hours ago, Conserv said:

Post your Archives reply here because we like to learn

 

Heard back from bmwgroup:

"The Vin 1560035 belongs to a BMW 1600 US which was manufactured on September 06th, 1967 and delivered on September 14th, 1967 to the BMW importer Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City. The original colour was Chamonix, paint code 085"

 

[spuriouspseudo]

5 hours ago, 02Les said:

when was it registered in Iowa?

 

Certificate of title says 2006, but it doesn't go int much detail other than that...  There's no date on the California reg record.

[Conserv]

2 hours ago, spuriouspseudo said:

 

Heard back from bmwgroup:

"The Vin 1560035 belongs to a BMW 1600 US which was manufactured on September 06th, 1967 and delivered on September 14th, 1967 to the BMW importer Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City. The original colour was Chamonix, paint code 085"

 

 

The “delivery” on September 14th represents the transfer of ownership from BMW AG to Hoffman Motors Corp, the sole U.S. importer during this era, headquartered in NYC.  It does not represent a physical delivery of the car or say anything about your car’s U.S. Port of Entry (POE) for U.S. Customs purposes.  You would need the original window sticker or other original documentation to determine the POE and the delivering dealer.  Depending on many variables, e.g., ship schedules, weather, POE, Panama Canal schedules (If West Coast POE), trucking schedules to dealership, distance from POE to dealership, it took 6 to 12 weeks from factory to dealership.  Thus, your car was not likely in the U.S. before mid-October 1967 and, especially if it’s POE was on the West Coast, it could easily have been November 1967.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Conserv