Tii / E28 Fuel Pump Qs

[saaron]

In prep for PVGP road trip, I'm putting together a back-up E28 fuel pump.  My current fuel pump is OK (knock on wood), I am doing this prophylactically.   

 

It is just for emergency back-up purposes.  I have a spare stock tii mounting piece (with the little canister), and the E28 pump.  I'm generally following the Keith Kreeger directions.  

 

Here are my two questions:

 

>The E28 pump I have has an inlet fitting that is larger than the output fitting.  Is that normal?  Said another way, is the fuel line coming from the fuel tank of the car larger in diameter than the outlet?  The outlet side looks like Keith's pics, but this inlet side I have is bigger than that.  I want to make sure that I can mate this thing up easily, if it comes to that.  

 

>What sort of connectors should I use on the end of the fuel pump's two wires?  I want this thing to be as plug and play as possible.  Keith's pics look like those blue plastic "connectors" that you lay two wires in and crimp closed.  Is there something better than that?  

 

Any other advice is welcome.  I'm a dummy when it comes to this stuff. 

 

Thanks everyone.  

 

Scott

 

 

[jgerock]

I have this set up as a spare.  Using the other pump, it is longer so it comes very close to the inboard CV joint (and solid brake pipe on the trailing arm) and slightly smaller in diameter so you will need a filler for the stock tii bracket/canister. I used a bicycle inner tube cut to fit.

 

The fittings are a little different than the stock tii pump. Just look at Keith's pics - I will post mine soon.  I used two short jumper wires from the new pump terminals to the original tii plug.

[jgerock]

The tii and e28 pump should have a 12mm inlet and 8 mm outlet. Big hose from tank to pump inlet. Smaller hose from pump outlet to canister inlet. Same 8mm hose to body hard line. Buy both hoses before doing this--- if you haven't replaced yours for a long time, do it now before the trip.  Run the tank down really low.  Since the pickup in the tank pulls from the bottom, you will spill gas unless you remove the pickup from the tank (to inspect the mesh filter). Scope creep.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by jgerock

[jgerock]

Closely examine the canister for rust at the seams. I replaced my pump in 2009 and suddenly the canister started leaking. 

[jgerock]

Here is a stock 2002tii fuel pump (pic courtesy of the interweb)

 

My old leaky canister

 

My spare assembly

 

[saaron]

OK, great.  Thanks so much, Jim.  

 

It looks like I'm on the right track.  My hoses and fittings are all OK in terms of size, based on what you are saying.  I will check that canister again, but it is in good shape.  The hose from the fuel tank to the pump was replaced not too long ago.  

 

I need to find something rubber to put around the pump to get it to fit right in the bracket.  Both you and Keith used inner tubes or garden hose, and I don't have either lying about.  Hmm.

 

It looks like I should put some connectors on the end of my spare pump assembly wires to facilitate easy connection...something like this?  

 

 

Or is it like this?  This is from your pic:

 

 

I read on an old FAQ post where someone was saying if you run this pump you should run the 5 series fuel filter and not the the tii filter (under the hood).  I guess if this is temporary I can not worry about that.  

 

Also, yes, that is a tight fit under there!

 

Thanks again.

 

Scott

[jgerock]

Your picture shows female crimp terminals. You will need male spade crimp terminals to fit inside the factory plug.

 

I'm still using the stock tii front filter - even after changing the pump to the E30 318is in tank pump (which has a sock type mesh filter)

[saaron]

31 minutes ago, jgerock said:

You will need male spade crimp terminals to fit inside the factory plug.

 

OK, got it.  Yours looked like the male type.

 

Yeah, the E30 setup looks attractive...

 

Scott

[OriginalOwner]

I did the Kreeger replacement method about 9 years ago.  Zero problems since.

 

I had purchased a rebuilt tii pump from Mesa Performance in Costa Mesa, CA but it didn't work:  had it completely installed ..... and it would not spin at all. 

 

A trusted mechanic friend in Brea strongly advised me to go with the Kreeger method.  He said I might actually be able to find an original tii pump somewhere, but how long might it have been sitting on a shelf and now have rotten seals, etc. etc. and leak like a sieve etc etc

 

Since the Kreeger pump has no screen on the inlet to the pump, I added a small in-line fuel filter between tank outlet and pump inlet.  Here's more notes on topic:

   

 

More good reading ........

 

 

Cheers,

 

Carl

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by OriginalOwner

[Einspritz]

Good to have a spare; whenever I had a pump stop running I smacked it with a wrench to get it going again.....for the short term.

 

Just be aware that the OE Tii pump pushes >103 Liters / Hour @ 5 Bar (73.5 psi) vs. 110 Liters / Hour @ 3 Bar (44.1 psi)

 

AND

 

The OE wiring to the fuel pump is 1 mm wire. This produces a voltage drop of over 12%, so either pump cannot pump to the specification.

 

Comparing OE to the replacement, then the output will be even less.

 

Then considering that most harnesses are original, the resistance would be even more due to corrosion and oxidization.

 

The proper size wire should be ~2.59 mm / 10 Ga.. The ground wire doesn't need to be the same since it is very short, but would be good practice to do so.

 

The takeaway is that while puttering around town it would be no problem, but full throttle / full load is a different story.

 

All the pumps from Mesa that I have purchase have worked fine even after sitting for ten years.

[saaron]

1 hour ago, OriginalOwner said:

Since the Kreeger pump has no screen on the inlet to the pump, I added a small in-line fuel filter between tank outlet and pump inlet.  Here's more notes on topic:

 

Yes, I suppose in my emergency kit, I should add a filter, as you say.  Good idea, there.  I will read those posts, too.  

 

Also great that you've done this and had no problems.

 

@Einspritz you're whole post is taken to heart.  I appreciate your knowledge and expertise on the topic.  If my current pump (which is the old tii style) ever does die, I would be tempted to go the mesa route.  I'm always a little nervous about non-standard retro-fits, in general.  

 

Scott

[Einspritz]

Thanks.

 

BTW  I always use a KL9 filter  placed behind the headlight.

[jimk]

13 hours ago, Einspritz said:

Just be aware that the OE Tii pump pushes >103 Liters / Hour @ 5 Bar (73.5 psi) vs. 110 Liters / Hour @ 3 Bar (44.1 psi)

But the pumps operate at whatever the pressure control valve on the kfish pump holds the pressure to.  So the two pump curves need to be overlaid to compare what the flow will be at the system operating pressure.  From previous posts the system pressure will be at 2 bar.  Finding the pump performance curves may be a challenge.

Attached find some info from Bosch

Bosch-2.pdf

[chargin]

I’m running the e28 with excellent results, I just added a piece of hose as a Tii bracket gasket to hold the pump and all is well 

 

 

 

i also added a Ford inertia switch in the trunk for good measure 

 

 

 

[saaron]

4 hours ago, chargin said:

I’m running the e28 with excellent results, I just added a piece of hose as a Tii bracket gasket to hold the pump and all is well 

 

Thanks for those great pics.  I appreciate it.

 

Scott