VIN 2391001 and 2780399

[NYNick]

If you weren't watching this fiasco on BaT, here's a heads up.

 

There was a car being auctioned as a 1974 Tii that ended yesterday. It presented really well and looked great. It could've commanded tens of thousands of dollars given what nice Tii's are bringing these days. But there was a problem brought up during the auction.

 

The stamped fender VIN was 2391001 which is a base 02 with an automatic transmission, built in late 1975. It also had riveted VIN plates on the fender (reproduction) and steering column which displayed 2780399, a 1974 Tii. The engine matched this VIN as well. The NYS Title had the Tii VIN. There were other car characteristics that indicated non-Tii status.

Clearly, this car was a fraudulent Tii.

 

Eventually the seller and BaT changed the listing to a base 1974 2002, which it isn't, since it's really a mis-titled 75 or 76. Just a mess.

 

Caveat emptor on these two VIN's.

[kbmb02]

Note to self: Consider having @Delia review my '74 Tii before I put it up for sale...

[jp5Touring]

I read the comments and felt bad for the guy selling it. I think he thought he had bought a legit tii. Still could have, lots o questions. 

He stated he was attempting to get a boat load of paperwork from the previous owner, but with no luck. Gee, surprise.    

 

There is also a tii on eBay now that was listed as a salvage title tribute car on Craigslist a few

weeks back. I asked about the VIN three times and have yet to hear back. 

[otisdog]

8 hours ago, kbmb02 said:

Note to self: Consider having @Delia review my '74 Tii before I put it up for sale...

 

Delia did not comport herself in the most gracious of manners....she had at least one of her responses deleted.

She also took a sharp barb from somebody commenting on her previous auction.

Also took a shot at the FAQ, and the folks related to it...

[02Les]

2 hours ago, jp5Touring said:

I read the comments and felt bad for the guy selling it. I think he thought he had bought a legit tii. Still could have, lots o questions. 

He stated he was attempting to get a boat load of paperwork from the previous owner, but with no luck. Gee, surprise.    

 

There is also a tii on eBay now that was listed as a salvage title tribute car on Craigslist a few

weeks back. I asked about the VIN three times and have yet to hear back. 

If it's the red one in Virginia Beach, VIN is 2586170 and it has motor 2393082. Assuming the huge difference between the previous Seller's asking price, the current Seller either thinks he has a tii because of the badge on the back, or he's really trying it on.

[02Les]

25 minutes ago, otisdog said:

 

Delia did not comport herself in the most gracious of manners....she had at least one of her responses deleted.

She also took a sharp barb from somebody commenting on her previous auction.

Also took a shot at the FAQ, and the folks related to it...

 

She probably lost patience with the BAT crowd. Even with overwhelming evidence that the car was not a factory tii, some BAT guys seemingly still thought it was a tii. Could have made a TV show out of it.

[jgerock]

I tried to review the comments and gave up. Wonder what was deleted?  Car certainly looked very nice.

[jp5Touring]

1 hour ago, 02Les said:

If it's the red one in Virginia Beach, VIN is 2586170 and it has motor 2393082. Assuming the huge difference between the previous Seller's asking price, the current Seller either thinks he has a tii because of the badge on the back, or he's really trying it on.

Thanks Les, I think he is really trying it on. 

[Jimmy]

tl;dr = idiots hate being told the truth once they believe a lie.

 

I read the whole thing a couple days ago and I didn't see anything out of line by anyone questioning the authenticity of the car presented. Maybe a comment was deleted before I got to it?

 

There were many willfully-ignorant types who made rude comments about the critics, such as suggesting that anyone questioning the car's authenticity and thus its value had ulterior motives such as keeping the price down so they could buy it. They belittled the notion of caring whether a car is genuine or not, as if everyone should be like them and ignore the discrepancy of tens of thousands of dollars in market value. It was hard not to think they might be shilling for the seller.

 

There even was testimony from one person that essentially because tiis without cowl notches exist, the absence of the cowl notch in the example presented was no evidence of a rebody.

 

Is being ill-informed a requirement to  perceiving oneself as an authority? When the dual VINs/switchers/title washing were confirmed, the tone changed, but people still seemed to resent the truth.

 

[Mike Self]

Consider...if someone wanted to alter a VIN from carbureted to tii deliverately, he would change the VIN that's stamped on the inner fender.  That's not an easy task unless you have a chunk of fender from a legitimate tii with a 276 or 278xxxx VIN.  Reproduction VIN plates are easy to mark with any VIN of your choice--even engine blocks can be re-stamped with some effort.  

 

So the question devlolves into "who did the plate swapping?"  The current owner or a previous one.  I don't think anyone who's spent any time on the FAQ would be fooled regardless...

 

mike

[Jimmy]

Why is /that/ the question? Why does any of us care how the car got that way?

[Conserv]

15 hours ago, 02Les said:

 

She probably lost patience with the BAT crowd. Even with overwhelming evidence that the car was not a factory tii, some BAT guys seemingly still thought it was a tii. Could have made a TV show out of it.

 

I am so glad I don’t follow BAT, which places the comments of true experts alongside the comments of true idiots. And then half of the bystanders side with the idiots, without regard to facts or evidence.... ?

 

An ‘02 manufactured after August 1975 is a 1976 model. U.S. 1976 2002A’s began with VIN 2390001 in September 1975.

 

 

The probability of any DMV authority ever “catching” this illegally re-bodied car is virtually nil. And maybe it is nil! But, even if the odds are virtually zero, do you really want to buy a car and worry: (a.) whether the titleholder of 2391001 might surface, (b.) whether light might be shone on the VIN mis-match because of some mishap, e.g., an accident, (c.) how you’re going to explain this illegal rebody when you sell the car, or (d.) whether something you can’t even imagine today will expose the truth?

 

I wouldn’t buy this car for $1,000. Others obviously have different opinions.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Conserv

['76mintgrün'02]

[Conserv]

1 minute ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

 

Thank you, Tom!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[Simeon]

3 hours ago, Conserv said:

am so glad I don’t follow BAT, which places the comments of true experts alongside the comments of true idiots. And then half of the bystanders side with the idiots, with

 

Amen.