Nice 13 X 5.5” Campagnolos on Bring a Trailer

[COOP]

Posted today...No personal affiliation, just thought I’d share:

 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/campagnolo-ragno/

Edited February 14, 2019 by COOP

[Tsingtao_1903]

I thought Fiat bolt pattern is PID 98?  

 

I do know BMW and Opel bolt pattern is PID 100.

[arminyack]

Sounds to me like the seller bought them for his Fiat 650, then realized his bolt pattern was 4x98, not 4x100....and went "$%^&*(!!. Hence them being on BaT.

[Tsingtao_1903]

These wheels appear to have been heavily powder coated.  Typical cure temperature for powder coating is around 400F.  IMHO, that is just a tad high for magnesium.  

Edited February 14, 2019 by Tsingtao_1903

[Conserv]

19 hours ago, arminyack said:

Sounds to me like the seller bought them for his Fiat 650, then realized his bolt pattern was 4x98, not 4x100....and went "$%^&*(!!. Hence them being on BaT.

 

It’s somewhat complicated, particularly because Campagnolo used the same 5.5” castings — all with model number 40714 cast into them —  for both the 4x98 PCD model 40571 (Fiat) and the 4x100 PCD model 40714 (BMW and Opel) rims. The definitive model number was only reflected on a paper label applied to the barrels of the rims, and now often missing.

 

I’ve written about this before, recounting my discovery that two of my six Ragno’s (now five) were 4x98 and four were 4x100.  I had the two 4x98 rims re-drilled to 4x100, but the whole process was a bit surprising (hint: if you use the term “magnesium alloy” around older, more experienced wheel restorers, who recall the almost purely magnesium rims of the 1950’s-60’s, they will believe they’ve heard “high explosives” and will point you towards the door....?).

 

If the paper labels are missing, and you don’t have a good PCD measuring tool — a good one is, say, $20 — I have a subtle visual hint to distinguish the 4x98’s from the 4x100’s. When they drilled for the lug holes, the 4x98 rims took a slightly larger “slice” out of the protruding center hub, because the opposing lug holes were 2mm closer.

 

The first photo shows an original 4x100 rim. The second photo shows an original 4x98 rim. Notice the relative slices removed from the protruding center hubs. The freshly-drilled lug hole insert reveals I took the photo after the re-drilling of the two 4x98 rims.

 

The third photo shows a factory paper label. To be clear, this label, designating a model 40571 rim (4x98), appeared on a rim with a model number of 40714 cast into it. The paper label trumps the cast-in number!

 

Either way, you can have the rims re-drilled to the PCD you need — my guy charged $50 per rim for the two I had re-drilled. Just don’t use the word “magnesium” unless you are asked point blank. And...if I recall, the original rims all have steel inserts for the lug holes. So the wheel restorer is not messing with any magnesium alloy. He is, rather: (a.) pressing out the original steel inserts, (b.) pressing in new steel inserts, and (c.) drilling the new inserts to the correct PCD. See, it’s easy!

 

Regards,

 

Steve 

Edited February 15, 2019 by Conserv

[SydneyTii]

oh here we go.........

[Simeon]

1 hour ago, SydneyTii said:

oh here we go.........

 

*raises head and sniffs the savanna like a meercat*

 

”new wheels?”

[arminyack]

I have Borranis now. No bidding for me. *repeats ad infinium*

 

maybe that will deter me...

[NYTransplant]

Just saw this note on the BAT listing:

 

"Sorry for the confusion folks but we remeasured the wheels and they are in fact 4 X 98. We also test fit them on a BMW 2002, and they DO NOT FIT. We bought these wheels from Fiat vendor for a Fiat Jolly 600 project we sold before finishing. Any questions let us know. Thanks!"

[SydneyTii]

1 hour ago, Simeon said:

 

*raises head and sniffs the savanna like a meercat*

 

”new wheels?”

????

[1dollar93]

6 hours ago, NYTransplant said:

Just saw this note on the BAT listing:

 

"Sorry for the confusion folks but we remeasured the wheels and they are in fact 4 X 98. We also test fit them on a BMW 2002, and they DO NOT FIT. We bought these wheels from Fiat vendor for a Fiat Jolly 600 project we sold before finishing. Any questions let us know. Thanks!"

I was planning to lie in wait and snipe these on the final day of the auction, it’s disappointing to find that they are not correct for our cars. On the other hand it’s probably good for my wallet (and marriage) that they are incorrect.

Edited February 15, 2019 by 1dollar93

[Mike Self]

Found a set of those many years ago in a little country junkyard in SW OH--on an engine fire- burned 2002. Wheels were fine, front tires, not so much.  Didn't have the $100 on me to buy 'em, and when I came back two days later they were gone.  Rats!

 

mike

[resra]

I have a set of these in mint condition. How much are they worth? And yes in 4x100.

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, resra said:

I have a set of these in mint condition. How much are they worth? And yes in 4x100.

 

The B.A.T. auction will certainly provide some value guidance. The number of 4x98 fans probably equals the number of 4x100 fans, so any value differences attached to PCD are probably nil or negligible.

 

If your set has the original paper labels, saying model 40714, you’re set. If not, have you measured them with a good PCD measuring tool? I say this because the first PCD measuring tool I owned had too much slop to clearly distinguish between 4x98 and 4x100.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[resra]

Steve, mine were taken off of a 2002ti in the mid 90s imported from Germany. Completely refinished professionally and still sits in the box since then. They still look like new. I never advertised them anywhere as I still don't know the value. I will pay attention to the 4x98 sale but I think the 4x98 market is lot more narrower than the 4x100 market!

 

 

Edited February 16, 2019 by resra