1972 BMW 2002 tii - BUYER BEWARE!!

[TNan]

As the ol' saying goes - "IF IT'S TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, THEN IT PROBABLY IS".

 

Surfing the net, I came across a 72 BMW 02 tii for sale for $8K. Great condition. I obviously knew that this is too good to be true.  I tried to convince myself that perhaps the owner is an old lady who inherited the car and has no clue what its worth. I reached out to the owner. They responded stating that it's still available. So I started to get the ball rolling.  After several back and forth emails, I came to the conclusion, "here we go, another scammer". Here's an interesting read to our conversation to see how these scam artists work:

 

STEVE WAGNER (his alias):

Hi, I sincerely apologize for the delay in my response, the car is still for sale. If you want more pictures or for more details please email me back. Thank you for your patience all this while.

 

ME:

Do you have a number so I can briefly talk to you more about your 02 for sale?

 

(He ignored my request for his phone number)

STEVE:

The car is being sold as described, no mechanical or electrical issues, everything is in great condition. Clear title is available and all service receipts. Less that 36,000 miles. The price is $8,000. If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to email me. Best Regards!

 

ME:

Thanks for getting back to me and thanks for the additional photos. Where are you located (city?). And are you ok if I come to look at your car?

 

(Again, he ignored my question about coming by to see it. Also, the listing states the car is in San Jose)

STEVE:

The car is located in Portland, OR. I have attached more pictures to see condition of the car. If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to email me. Best Regards!

 

(Ok, so the fact he's ignoring any direct contact other then email, I smelled 'scam'. So now I want to see how he is hoping to take my money.)

ME:

Thanks Steve for the additional photos.  How can we proceed with the sale?  

 

STEVE:

If you are interested I have a contact with a professional shipping company and I can make arrangements right away. You will have seven days right after the delivery has been made to do an inspection to any auto workshop of your choice before you sign the papers to purchase the car. If you will decide not to keep it for any reason the vehicle will be send back. So basically I only receive the money if you are happy about what you are buying.
If you are ready to move forward with this please send me your shipping details (name, address, phone#). I will forward your details to the shipping company and you will get by email transaction invoice and the tracking number. I can assure you the transaction will end smoothly for both of us. 

 

(Ok, there it is - he wants me to pay a 'shipping company' who will act as a middleman in the transaction.)

ME: 

So glad to hear the car is in Portland. Thats not far from Vancouver. Can we arrange a time/date to come and I'll trailer it back on my own?  It'll save us both time and money.

 

STEVE:

Unfortunately I can't show you the car in person because I am quite busy with my job and unable to travel back to the States (my contract ends in June 2019). The delivery company will make the title transfer and handle the shipping and payment for us. 

 

(A simple request.)

ME:

is it possible to meet the shipping coming at your car. You won't need to be there. I will pay the shipping company cash on the spot in which he could give me the keys.  That way we all win.  

 

(I'm sure this is the end of our conversation)

STEVE:

I need to speak with my agent about that. I let you know. 

 

-----

 

So hopefully, this will help people when it comes to looking into getting a car that is too good to be true at a low price.

 

After doing my do-diligence, I discovered that the real car was sold on BaT in 2017:  https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-bmw-2002tii-14/

 

If YOU or you know the person who owns the car, can you please PM me.  Apparently, your car is being for sale in several places.

 

 

 

[TodB]

The old "wire me the money (optimum word "wire") to our agent, I'll ship you the car and release the funds when you accept the car or you can return it for a refund". Run.

[Mpower5266]

Yep, very old scam. 

[iinca]

yup that's sounds pretty damn 'greasy

 

I once offered one of these scoundrels an extra 1000 bux if I could do a personal pick up. The car was supposedly less than 50 miles away in Reno...No response lol

[Seth Horwitz]

Definitely a fraud, here, but I disagree about some of the flags that you had.

 

While I’d raise an eyebrow if someone didn’t want to talk on the phone, it also wouldn’t shock me. (Especially on a 40 year old car where there are a million perfectly legitimate questions, from an educated pool of buyers, but maybe questions someone doesn’t want to deal with.) Again, it’s likely not profit maximizing, but not really a flag to me. 

 

Also, not showing the car before purchase is plausible. It’s not a great selling plan, but some people are willing to make that sacrifice to avoid tire kickers coming to their house. If it were me, I wouldn’t even show it at my house, before it was sold, so that means driving to some public place each time. That’s not a hassle to most people selling a car, but some people would rather lose a few grand than do it. 

 

While clearly not helpful if trying to sell your car, it’s just not worth the hassle for certain people. I find it easy to ask someone to throw a newspaper on the hood of a car, and take a picture. That weeds out the fraudsters pretty quickly.

 

I’m reminded of the time when I bought an extra set of factory wheels for another one of my cars. The guy was clearly not motivated to lift a finger beyond his classified ad already placed on the message board, but the price was very good. (Probably half, or less, of what could be gotten.) I figured “well, I haven’t been mugged in a while, let’s see what happens.” It only got worse when I got there. He wanted me to call him when I got close, he met me in front, and then pointed down to the underground parking lot beneath the apartment building. I locked my doors, then slowly headed down the ramp. At the bottom, he opened up his own private garage within the garage, where there was a Viper GTS, Ford GT, and a Z06. (He owned the whole building.) After a good laugh, and realizing we had mutual friends, he explained how these factory wheels (with factory rubber mould nubs still on the tires they were so new) were taken off after a thousand miles, and he just wanted to make space, but he didn’t care enough to go out of his way to get it done. It’s rare, but it happens. 

[hynrgee]

Nice write-up.  Thanks for sharing.  I recently contacted a Craigslist poster about a furnished apartment he had available for a short term. He had wonderful photos and explained he was with an ill father in Ohio and was thus renting his place in California cheaply just to have someone watch the property.  Just as one should insist on a title in an automotive transaction, I insisted on keys and a tour of the property before handing over the first month's rent and a security deposit. I got lots of excuses and a story about the wonders of electronic media, locks,  and security. I then tripped across photos of the actual property on HotPads and contacted the owner to let him know that his condo was being advertised on Craigslist for a quarter of what he wanted. I notified Craigslist,  the post was taken down, and there was no other consequence for the scammer.  It's too easy to commit fraud. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by hynrgee
Spelling.

[TNan]

Asking for his number and or location of the car was my strategy in finding out the legitimacy of his car. Simply giving me one of those information will tell me that they are for real.  Which goes a long way when purchasing something site unseen.  

 

I've always suggested to people when they're contemplating a car site unseen is to look online for a local mechanic nearby and pay him some $$ to go check it out on your behalf.  This will weed out the scammers - they would scurry away like cockroaches after hearing that suggestion.

 

The newspaper idea is good - but not full proof.

 

It turns out the 'real' owner of the car is a member here under the name:  'hognhominy'.  I sent him a message - waiting to hear back.

 

 

 

 

[saaron]

I have pics of that car from PVGP.  But I'M not selling it.  Because I don't own it.

 

Scott

[TNan]

Thanks saaron!  I would love to hear from the real owner.  Looking at the car, you could see how people would be eager purchase it!

['76mintgrün'02]

That is the car that came up for sale near me, back in 2013.  It was bought by a guy in CA and then he sold it again after a bit.  Funny how it keeps resurfacing.

Tom

 

[02Les]

The car sold on BAT out of Knoxville, TN (by hognhominy) to Buyer in PA.

The car has since been for sale (by the PA Owner) on Ebay & Craigslist from Jul '18 to Jan '19 &, as far as I know, is still for sale. This Seller has used the previous Seller's BAT description.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-BMW-2002-tii-/192773275655?_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l10137&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true

[Conserv]

The car, a Euro-spec tii, has a reputation, based on what I read on this forum, for being “rustier-than-it-looks”....which may explain the multiple sales and ongoing marketing.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[Roverguy]

There are a lot of sc#m b%gs.

 

When i had my 911 up for sale last year someone stole my add, pictures and  all and listed it on Samba!

 

I contacted Samba, they investigated and banned the dude for life.

[Mike Self]

I had a similar situation when I listed a house for rent on Zillow and rented it quickly.  A week or so later--after I had taken my ad down, my new tenants (who hadn't moved yet) called me to ask why the house was still listed at a much lower price.  I checked that ad to discover it was a scam (wire security deposit to xxx--not me), told my new tenants not to worry that I wasn't renting the house out from under 'em (at a lower price!) and notified Zillow, who immediately killed the ad.  

 

But surprisingly I've had very good success buying cars via Craigslist (two very nice E30 318is's that were actually better than described).

 

mike

[Guy Cocquyt]

Which platform was the scammer using?

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