Early 1600 built for US or Europe?

[Kingryan86]

I just picked up this 67 1600 from a faq member, I emailed bmw and was given this response “The BMW 1600 VIN 1523469 was manufactured on April 28th, 1967 and delivered on May 18th, 1967 to the BMW importer Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City. The original colour was Caribe, paint code 059.”

I also ran the vin through the classicobmw and attached the results, “region: Europa” where as my other 2002s says “region: USA”

 

My question is this car US or euro spec?

it has euro front markers, red center tail light, euro rear bumper with license plate lights. But it was built then shipped right over to the US. Maybe someone can chime in. It is still posted in the Cars for Sale with the POs photobucket with a ton of photos. 

[gracer]

There were no US safety specs untill 1968,  US and euro specs were the same.

 

[02Les]

Red centre taillights might be a clue!

[Conserv]

19 hours ago, 02Les said:

Red centre taillights might be a clue!

 

Umm...  Well, maybe not, Les. Cars imported into the U.S. came with red-center lights up until January 1, 1970. That is when the D.O.T. amber requirement kicked in. The transition period might have actually been in the month or so before January 1, 1970. But certainly my very early 1970, VIN 1668093 (September 8, 1969) came with red-center lights and, by a quirk of me swapping my original taillights for those more “modern” amber-center lights, I still have the red-center versions, dated August 13, 1969 (photo below).

 

And...while I’m rolling, the flush-fitting front turn signals, now known by most as “Euro” turn signals, were also on every U.S.-imported ‘02 prior to January 1, 1970. Having grown up seeing 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, and early 1970 U.S. ‘02’s with flush turn signals, I was confused when I joined this forum in 2011 and heard everyone referring to them as “Euro”....? What’s “Euro” about a light that came on 4 1/2 years of U.S. ‘02’s? ?

 

Just to be clear — emphasizing that my current views toward stock or original cars weren’t always my views — beginning in 1973, I was collecting all the Modell 71 features — knee trim, lights, bumpers — needed to make my old-fashioned ‘70 look “just like a new BMW”!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Conserv

[Conserv]

20 hours ago, Kingryan86 said:

I just picked up this 67 1600 from a faq member, I emailed bmw and was given this response “The BMW 1600 VIN 1523469 was manufactured on April 28th, 1967 and delivered on May 18th, 1967 to the BMW importer Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City. The original colour was Caribe, paint code 059.”

I also ran the vin through the classicobmw and attached the results, “region: Europa” where as my other 2002s says “region: USA”

 

My question is this car US or euro spec?

it has euro front markers, red center tail light, euro rear bumper with license plate lights. But it was built then shipped right over to the US. Maybe someone can chime in. It is still posted in the Cars for Sale with the POs photobucket with a ton of photos. 

 

Listen to gracer!

 

The only “Euro” item that might be slightly out of place is the center section of the rear bumper, with tag lights incorporated. I thought these had been mostly replaced by the crop of April 1967 cars, but your rear bumper guards are fully U.S.-spec, so it’s entirely possible the center section has been replaced post-factory.

 

But let me guess, your car has U.S. instruments and U.S. headlight buckets... ? And Hoffman Motors was the sole importer for U.S.-imported cars.

 

Congrats!  You know you must restore this car to its original Caribe....?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Conserv

[02Les]

I am curious if the early "Euros" that were delivered new to the US had the Euro headlights with the side/city light feature and the "flat" blinker lights that only blinked (no running light).

[Conserv]

15 minutes ago, 02Les said:

I am curious if the early "Euros" that were delivered new to the US had the Euro headlights with the side/city light feature and the "flat" blinker lights that only blinked (no running light).

 

Even before 1968, Les, U.S.-imported cars had to pass Customs with sealed-beam headlights. These were, of course, sealed from the factory and not serviceable. So no, none came with the city-light that was incorporated into the headlight. But...I believe early ‘02’s came with the ability to turn on a single side’s turn signals (front and rear, but without flashing, and I think it was with a tiny second bulb), to be left on when parking on narrow streets. Mercedes-Benz called these clearance lights in the 1950’s-‘60’s. I believe these lights were eliminated ca. 1969 or 1970 — I’ll bet Mike S. knows — under revised U.S. lighting standards.

 

I know my 1958 and 1959 Mercedes had these and I believe my ‘67 1600-2 had these, but they’ve all blended together in my memory...

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[02Les]

1 minute ago, Conserv said:

 

Even before 1968, Les, U.S.-imported cars had to pass Customs with sealed-beam headlights. These were, of course, sealed from the factory and not serviceable. So no, none came with the city-light that was incorporated into the headlight. But...I believe early ‘02’s came with the ability to turn on a single side’s turn signals (front and rear, but without flashing, and I think it was with a tiny second bulb), to be left on when parking on narrow streets. Mercedes-Benz called these clearance lights in the 1950’s-‘60’s. I believe these lights were eliminated ca. 1969 or 1970 — I’ll bet Mike S. knows — under revised U.S. lighting standards.

 

I know my 1958 and 1959 Mercedes had these and I believe my ‘67 1600-2 had these, but they’ve all blended together in my memory...

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Thanks Steve

 

So, even though the VINs on the early cars were mixed in with the Euro car VINs, those that were destined for the US direct from the factory had differences.

Thus, there was a US spec Euro car then ?

[Simeon]

3 minutes ago, Conserv said:

These were, of course, sealed from the factory and not serviceable. So no, none came with the city-light that was incorporated into the headlight.

 

Not entirely relevant to this thread (and certainly not claiming that this is what was done done here) but sealed beam headlights in the UK used to be available with a clear glass ‘window’ let into the reflector coating at the back. The light fitting used to incorporate a small lamp arrangement that used to fit close to the window and shine through it. That’s how you get a ‘city light’ (or side light as we called them) into a sealed beam headlamp. 

[AlfaBMWGuy]

Already trying to pass it on?

 

https://spokane.craigslist.org/cto/d/spokane-1967-bmw-rare/6883750671.html

[02Les]

6 minutes ago, AlfaBMWGuy said:

Already trying to pass it on?

 

https://spokane.craigslist.org/cto/d/spokane-1967-bmw-rare/6883750671.html

 

And a $2000 price increase!

[HBChris]

And strangely enough the flush turn signal lamps which function as parking lamps, turn off when head lights are turned on, unlike later cars.

[Conserv]

15 hours ago, 02Les said:

.

Thus, there was a US spec Euro car then ?

 

So yes, Les, the ‘02’s were “U.S.-spec Euro cars” before approximately September 1, 1967, when the VIN’s were segregated, beginning with the 1968 models (probably VIN 1560001 for 1600-2’s). The changes needed to conform to U.S. specs before the 1968 models were sufficiently inconsequential — primarily instruments, headlights, and smaller license plates — that separate VIN sequences were not deemed necessary. But when more structural requirements rolled out, e.g., the fully padded dash boards that existed alongside the chrome-trimmed Euro.

 

I’d bet, but don’t know factually, that the U.S. also wanted to see separate VIN sequences for U.S. imports so that Euro cars — not in conformance with the ever-increasing U.S. regulations — could not be “slipped” through U.S. Customs.

 

Lastly, we don’t know — well, I certainly don’t know — whether the U.S. features on these U.S.-bound “Euro” cars were installed on the assembly line, or post-assembly line. I’d guess that U.S. headlight buckets, U.S. instruments, etc. might have been installed on the assembly line, but I just don’t know.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Conserv

[Conserv]

4 minutes ago, HBChris said:

And strangely enough the flush turn signal lamps which function as parking lamps, turn off when head lights are turned on, unlike later cars.

 

Chris,

 

Most U.S. domestic cars before the 1968 model year behave similarly: parking lights turn off when headlights turn on.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[Conserv]

30 minutes ago, Simeon said:

 

Not entirely relevant to this thread (and certainly not claiming that this is what was done done here) but sealed beam headlights in the UK used to be available with a clear glass ‘window’ let into the reflector coating at the back. The light fitting used to incorporate a small lamp arrangement that used to fit close to the window and shine through it. That’s how you get a ‘city light’ (or side light as we called them) into a sealed beam headlamp. 

 

So there were two bulbs in a sealed beam, Simeon? When either burned out, you replaced the sealed beam? Interesting. But I still believe the U.S. had the world’s worst lighting standards until they dropped the sealed beam...

 

Best regards,

 

Steve