Early 1600 built for US or Europe?

[HBChris]

12 minutes ago, Conserv said:

 

Chris,

 

Most U.S. domestic cars before the 1968 model year behave similarly: parking lights turn off when headlights turn on.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

But my XK-150s all had fender top running lights which stayed on!

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, HBChris said:

 

But my XK-150s all had fender top running lights which stayed on!

 

Ahead of their time? Behind the times? Or simply British electricals? ?

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Conserv

[Jimmy]

6 hours ago, Conserv said:

 

So there were two bulbs in a sealed beam, Simeon? When either burned out, you replaced the sealed beam? Interesting. But I still believe the U.S. had the world’s worst lighting standards until they dropped the sealed beam...

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Several sealed beams were produced that were/are better than many of the currently available H4s. They're long since out of production. 

 

The reason sealed beams that suck suck is not explicitly because they are sealed beams, it is because there was a BS government initiative to keep the cost of sealed beams low, as though the entire US economy was strained by exhorbitant light bulb costs. 

 

Cibie even produced a sealed beam with replaceable bulbs called BOBI and they were fantastic. Then the American producers of crap sealed beams lobbied the NHTSA and the standard was changed to disallow replaceable bulbs. ?!? Protectionism for your night-time safety.

 

 

Now that fools will part with large sums of money to have any manner bright blurry blue light in lieu of sealed beams, what remains available is dismal, there's no money in it. (like dial-a-song)

[Slavs]

It's nice to see an early 1600 saved from the crusher, because that is where most met their demise as for many years the 02 community considered the early 1600s as merely disposable. All 02s were really cheap and for most people it was too much of an effort to juggle all the components to bring them to 2002 specs. Most people were far less interested in a 1600cc car, despite their really cool Euro spec styling. 

 

Your car did not come with those bumperets on your rear bumper. US cars were equipped with those bumperets in 68 due to safety regulations. However, the rest of your rear bumper, including the location of the license plate lights in the center section of your bumper is indicative of a 66-67 1600 and all Euro spec cars. In place of the bumperettes, the 66-67  cars had a thin metal band. In 1968 the US spec cars started to differ from Euro spec cars due to safety regulations. The lower section of the dash was padded  large bumperettes were added and the license plate lights were moved to the rear panel on US spec cars.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Slavs

[Conserv]

6 hours ago, Jimmy said:

 

...Cibie even produced a sealed beam with replaceable bulbs called BOBI and they were fantastic....

 

 

I’m sorry, Jimmy, but this is a rare item on which I don’t agree with you: I believe the BOBI was a sales failure because it was a mediocre headlight, or, at minimum, a headlight upgrade not worth the effort! ?

 

The BOBI, of course, was an attempt to make a U.S.-legal version of the mighty Cibie Z Beam — see my avatar, courtesy of ‘76mintgrun’02 — which was only legal, within the U.S., for motorcycle and off-road use. But even states with comprehensive and strict state inspection regimes, such as Pennsylvania, simply weren’t looking (carefully) at headlights during the sealed beam era. Thus, I ran Marchal H4’s and Z Beams (also H4’s) right through the sealed beam era.

 

Yes, the BOBI was better than your average GE sealed beam, but it was such a dim shadow of the Z Beam, I couldn’t imagine buying one....

 

My story, and I’m sticking to it... ??

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Conserv

[Conserv]

6 hours ago, Slavs said:

It's nice to see an early 1600 saved from the crusher, because that is where most met their demise as for many years the 02 community considered the early 1600s as merely disposable. All 02s were really cheap and for most people it was too much of an effort to juggle all the components to bring them to 2002 specs. Most people were far less interested in a 1600cc car, despite their really cool Euro spec styling. 

 

Your car did not come with those bumperets on your rear bumper. US cars were equipped with those bumperets in 68 due to safety regulations. However, the rest of your rear bumper, including the location of the license plate lights in the center section of your bumper is indicative of a 66-67 1600 and all Euro spec cars. In place of the bumperettes, the 66-67  cars had a thin metal band. In 1968 the US spec cars started to differ from Euro spec cars due to safety regulations. The lower section of the dash was padded  large bumperettes were added and the license plate lights were moved to the rear panel on US spec cars.

 

Slavs,

 

I’m going to disagree with you on the rear bumperettes issue: most U.S.-imported ‘67 1600-2’s I saw back in the day, including my own, received the rear bumperettes, as a Hoffman Motors “mandatory option”, as shown on the accompanying window sticker for VIN 1527753 (June 6, 1967).  As to U.S.-imported ‘66 1600-2’s, I have no idea whether they had or didn’t have bumperettes, as ‘66’s were really rare!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Conserv

[Jimmy]

Well aren't you quite the contrarian this morning! ?

[Mike Self]

15 hours ago, Conserv said:

But...I believe early ‘02’s came with the ability to turn on a single side’s turn signals (front and rear, but without flashing, and I think it was with a tiny second bulb), to be left on when parking on narrow streets. Mercedes-Benz called these clearance lights in the 1950’s-‘60’s. I believe these lights were eliminated ca. 1969 or 1970 — I’ll bet Mike S. knows — under revised U.S. lighting standards.

Steve is correct.  Early cars (pre "bulge" front turn signals) had front turn signals with two bulbs--the regular 21 cp turn signal bulb, and a tiny 3 watt parking light bulb, as front parking lights were required on US cars at the time.  

 

As for the "on street parking lights"--this is a requirement in several European countries when you park overnight on the street.  With this feature, selecting a left or right turn with your turn signal lever and the ignition off, the appropriate front and rear parking/tail light illuminates.  AFAIK the only US cars so wired were the 72 and 73 cars, and possibly the modell 71 cars from the 71 model year.  The pre-modell 71 cars have the appropriate terminals on the back of the turn signal lever, but the US cars aren't wired for that feature.  They can be, though by studying the factory wiring diagram.  

 

This feature explains why left and right parking and tail lights are on separate fuses...

 

mike

[Einspritz]

My '69 1600 had that as well as the turn signal stalk on the right hand side.......

[Mike Self]

4 hours ago, Conserv said:

 As to U.S.-imported ‘66 1600-2’s, I have no idea whether they had or didn’t have bumperettes, as ‘66’s were really rare!

I've seen a couple of US spec 66s (including 1500503, IIRC--the 503rd 1600 off the line).  I saw in in CA probably 18-19 years ago; its insruments spoke English, it had red center tail lilghts and it was LHD, so presumably it was a US spec car--and it had rear bumperettes.  

 

That's only a sample of one, but it's kinda unlikely that the purchaser would have ordered and installed rear bumper guards when it was new--and yes, it still had the Euro rear bumper incorporating license plate lights, so the bumper was presumably original.

 

Also...IIRC all the NK sedans Hoffman imported came with bumper guards, so it would make sense for the 1600s to be so equipped too (additional dealer profit!)

 

mike

[Einspritz]

Mine had red centers, was LHD and bumperettes.....wish I could find the VIN.......Sadly, the buyer chopped off the top and made a "convertible" without, you know, the top.

 

I still have the clock that I took out, "ran when removed".....if anyone is interested......

 

Love the "Defroster Side Windows" on the window sticker.....yeah, those worked.....

[NickVyse]

great pics!

[HBChris]

I have been told that euro cars had yellow center lenses as they were required even though the US required red. Long hood Porsche owners say this is how to differentiate a euro vs. US early 911.  Thoughts?  Maybe this has been discussed before, if so my apologies.

[Slavs]

I believe the rear bumper guards or bumperettes were standard on all NK cars, and they were most likely an NK item incorporated on to the 68 02.  All US spec 1600s with the rear bumperettes or bumper guards which I examined were 1968 and up. I saw many 67 1600s at the bome yards, and most had no bumper guards at the rear. This was also with the few 66 cars I examined at the same yards. Furthermore, all 66-67 cars I examined also had the very small bumper guards at the front bumper. The small front bumper guards complemented the lack of any at the rear, otherwise the car looks odd with large bumper guards on one end and no bumper guards at the other end or with small bumper guards at the front and large bumper guards at the rear, and every 67 I've seen has small bumper guards at the front. 

[Slavs]

Einspritz, The car in your pics appears to be a 68 1600. The license plate, the license plate lights, the position of the door mirror, the large bumperettes or bumper guards all indicate it is a 68. I had a 68 California plates which started with the letter "X". My 69 starts with a "Z". That is a cool pic. I still use my car to go skiing. Where was the pic taken ? THe mountains and road look really familiar.

 

Slavs